User:MuppetArchives/Current Events 19 (April 2007)

Archive of Current events dicussions.

Welcome messages
Hey all! Just wanted to make another shout-out about welcome messages. Now that we're in registered-user only mode (for at least a while to test things out -- see below), we won't be using the welcome and username templates for a while. Some of the admins have made customized welcome templates (for example, template:welcome-s is mine) for a more personable approach in introducing one's self to the new user. I know other folks have helped out in welcoming new users in the past, so instead of creating templates for everyone, I propose that we create a template that everyone can use which is piped so that you can personalize it if you want to. For example: Scott.

Currently, I'm working with a bot to "subst:" all the welcome pages so that no pages will actually be linking to template:welcome. (subst: just substitutes the call for the template with the actual code that's in the template -- it cures a few software bugs to do it that way and decreases server load). Once that's done, I'd like to just continue using the welcome template so that we don't have a new, longer name to work with, remembering to always subst: it. This might all sound complicated, but most of it's going to happen behind-the-scenes and you won't know about it. All you have to know is that to welcome a new user, you'll be doing this: Yourname ~ instead of this: ~. I'll also be sure to engineer the template so that you don't have to use your name if you don't want to.

So, that's what I'm working on now. I'm open to questions and thoughts as always. —Scott ( talk ) 16:38, 12 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Also, if you're worried about what Recent Changes has been looking like, you shouldn't be seeing that when I do such work very soon. I've discussed with Danny and Andrew about making those invisible in Recent Changes, but they'll still appear in each article's history. Some of that stuff you shouldn't care about as it's general wiki maintenance, but there are others that might be of particular interest, such as swapping out a parameter for the Sesame Episodes template which I did yesterday. For now, I've been marking all those edits as minor, so if you don't want to see them in Recent Changes, just click "Hide minor edits." —Scott ( talk ) 16:42, 12 April 2007 (UTC)


 * With all that in mind, I've created Template:Welcome-test -- please see what it looks like on the sandbox and feel free to tweak it to better suit our welcoming needs. I've finished subst'ing all the current welcome templates, and this is what I'd like to use in place of that with everyone's approval. Again, it would work as I described above and I think it's a good solution for keeping our templates need and uniform, as well as fixing that odd section editing bug that Wendy and I discovered this week. —Scott ( talk ) 20:36, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Active talk pages
Just wanted to point out that after some discussion, we're going to try placing talk boxes on the talk pages instead of on the articles. Basically it means categorizing the talk page in Category:Active Talk Pages rather than having the extra click-though from the article. For more, see the discussion. —Scott ( talk ) 20:08, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Trivia
I've been meaning to bring this up for some time, and of course it happens to be at a moment when I don't have time to do a whole lot about it myself. But I think it's worth looking at the "Trivia" sections on article pages, especially those for people and characters, which frankly, are a mess for the most part. Most of the film/TV trivia sections are reasonably standardized and edited, and little tidbits add to those pages. But in other articles, Trivia is a dumping ground; info is often unsourced, a lot of it is too trivial even for a trivia section, and other bits are actually important and interesting but really belong in a biographical section of the article itself. I think what often happens is that we find a new fact and rush to add it to the page, but can't see where it would fit in, or the current page uses a "press" bio, so that tidbit is just added as Trivia. Then the sections grow, and even when the main article is improved, the trivia is often overlooked.

So here's my thoughts. What should be in the main article, and not in trivia? Details and quotes about character names, pets, major hobbies, and other facets of a character's lives or personalities; the first three items on Miss Piggy all need to be incorporated into the bio. Pepe the King Prawn: outside of one re-cast bit, the rest is about his personality and life, and needs to be worked into the body of the article (the article as a whole is a bit of a mess right now anyway). If a puppeteer also wrote or directed projects, that needs to be in the body of the article too. Where a key Muppet performer was born? Article body. Details about a character's creation and origin, when sourced? Not trivia, should be in the body. Random character birthdates, technical inconsistencies, details on when another performer took over briefly on one project, or the puppet switched from live-hand to rod and so on? Trivia.

Take a look at Steve Whitmire. That he shares a birthdate with Jim Henson and likes The Muppet Movie? Trivia, and rightly noted as such. But the rest, much of which isn't sourced, is about his background or work with the Muppets and needs to be integrated. Kevin Clash is worse: three items about his physical condition (possible vocal strain, tendonitis, height and weight) which I don't think we really need to be noting, and the birth of his daughter, which is a biographical detail which needs integrating.

Like I said, I don't have time to do a whole lot with it right now, but I thought it was worth mentioning. This problem exists all over the Wiki, so if anyone needs something to do, take a gander at an article's trivia section, or at some of the pages I mentioned. While sometimes a judgement call is involved, more often it's just there because someone didn't know where to put it. Give these stray facts a home! -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 14:37, 7 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that's a good point -- it's definitely a project worth working on. If you notice some pages that really need help, and you don't have time to deal with it right now, you could put an Attention tag on 'em. I think that would be a good use of the Attention system, since it's something that almost any contributor could help with. -- Danny (talk ) 15:08, 7 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I have noticed that some pages have a "trivia" section and some have a "notes" section (I think in some cases there are both). Should we make a decision on whether pages should just have a "Notes" section or just a "Trivia" section? --Minor muppetz 15:07, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Personally, I like "Notes" better. Sometimes the items in "Trivia" aren't necessarily trivial; they just don't fit in the article. -- Danny (talk ) 15:10, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I tend to agree; right now, I think it's just that user's tend to use "Trivia" as the automatic catch-all term. Can you link to examples of pages which have both headings? Ideally, there's several pages which really should be brought to the point where there's no "Trivia" heading at all. -- Andrew Leal  (talk ) 15:12, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I can't think of any pages that have both. I'm probably the person who's been making Notes headings rather than Trivia, and I wouldn't add both. -- Danny (talk ) 15:37, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I can't really think of any examples where both "Notes" and "Trivia" sections are used in the same page. I could just be thinking that there are. --Minor muppetz 19:31, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Just back on Kevin for a sec, I added those pieces of public medical info because they both have an affect on his long-term ability to puppeteer. --  Zanimum 16:34, 11 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Mayhaps, but this isn't a sports wiki; I don't think we need to include such info to prognosticate on long term performance, and even that doesn't justify height and weight. If Clash does retire for one of the reasons cited or something, then it becomes relevant, but right now, it seems intrusive. I don't really see how such info, on that or any other page, really helps. -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 17:09, 11 April 2007 (UTC)


 * You want to know something interesting? "Mayhaps" is not a word but "mayhap" is.  These are the kind of wonderful and fascinating things I learn when fighting with my girlfriend.  That is all. -- Peter  (talk ) 23:27, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Anonymous edits
This is huge news for the wiki: As a response to popular demand from all of the admins, Wikia has agreed to turn off anonymous editing on Muppet Wiki as an experiment. It's always been an important principle for us that contributors should have user names -- see the Muppet Wiki User Name policy -- because we feel that having names is essential to working together as a group. It's difficult to communicate with people who use IP addresses, and it's impossible for the folks with changing IPs. Turning off anonymous edits means that every contributor is connected to a history, and we can talk to everyone.

This is a big deal for Wikia, though. Wikipedia was founded on the idea that absolutely everybody should be allowed to edit no matter what, and there's a strong feeling at Wikia that making user names mandatory puts up a barrier that turns some people off. The fact that Wikia has agreed to this demonstrates the level of trust that they have in us as a community.

So this is an experiment right now. They agreed to try it for three months, and they're keeping track of how it goes in a bunch of different ways. They want to see the number of contributors go up, and the readership, and the quality of the contributions. At the end of three months, we'll look at that data and see if the policy should continue.

And the exciting thing is that if this works, it may be possible to use this as a model for other wikis. Ultimately, it may even have an impact on Wikipedia. So, like I said, huge news.

I hope that this is the start of a new phase for Muppet Wiki, where we really take off and become bigger and better than ever. We won't be distracted by anonymous vandals anymore, and we can just focus on building the database and building the community. Here we go... -- Danny (talk ) 15:37, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Yay! -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 03:48, 7 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Neat. I hope this experiment doesn't "fail". I think this community works better when the edits have an identity attached to them, and this could be a good function other wikias could utilize if trying to build the same level of community and quality we have here. My only suggestion for it (if possible) would be to possibly tweak the message that non-logged-in people get when they click "edit this page". Currently it's just says "You have to log in to edit pages." I think expanding the brief blurb on that page just to also explain that anyone can create an account (and it's free/easy) and also point them to the place to register. This might help people that get that message when they go to edit actually go and get an account and get editing. -- <font color="Blue">Brad D. (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 04:27, 11 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Right now it says "You have to log in to edit pages. Creating a username is free and only takes a minute to register." I agree that that could be expanded, and more friendly and welcoming. I'll have to ask around to see who knows how to edit that message... -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 15:10, 11 April 2007 (UTC)


 * After I posted that Scott did something with MediaWiki:Whitelistedittext and now the line "Creating a username is free and only takes a minute to register" is there. So it's a bit more inviting now. -- <font color="Blue">Brad D. (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 15:18, 11 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh! Duh. I shoulda known that before I went and e-mailed somebody about it. :) -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 15:28, 11 April 2007 (UTC)


 * What do you guys think about putting the box from Template:Welcome there? -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 18:54, 11 April 2007 (UTC)


 * That sounds cool! That way, they'll see a more friendly and detailed welcome message right away.  By the way, a funny thing happened to me last night.  It seems that the welcome template had somehow become linked to the "Welcome" 45!  I thought for a minute that I had been kicked out for some reason!  Fortunately, Wendy fixed it. -- <font color="Blue">Ken  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 03:04, 12 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that's a good idea. —Scott ( talk ) 16:27, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Hollywood Bowl
I found this image online with the caption "Kermit and Piggy at the Hollywood Bowl - 2006". Does anyone have any information on what took place there and could create an appearance page for the event? I'm in the dark on this one. -- <font color="Blue">Brad D. (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 04:40, 5 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Wow, great picture! Where'd you find it? That's John Mauceri at a somewhat recent Hollywood Bowlf event. I keep meaning to start a page for that, but I think I had trouble finding out what the show was called on the program. There's a thread about it at the TP forum. —Scott ( talk ) 05:11, 5 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The event was called "Fireworks Finale" at the Hollywood Bowl on September 15-17, 2006. -- <font color="Blue">Peter (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 23:33, 11 April 2007 (UTC)