User talk:Toughpigs

International Sesame Categories
Hey! When you get a chance, what's your current view on creating subcats for international Sesame stuff? Nick's created several or recategorized recently. Some I undid because the precedents were clear (two puppeteers don't need their own category, etc.). But then there's Category:Sesame Tree Characters. It has two items and the show has five regulars total (possibly guest characters, but right now we don't have anyone over there who can document that kind of thing), and 'til now, the rule has been that all international Muppets go in the same category except the two giants, Sesamstrasse and Sesamstraat. I found this discussion from 2006 in which you said exactly that, but I wanted to make sure your view hasn't changed on this (and if so, I'll work on adding it to the policy sandbox for easier reference next time). Right now, we have less than 200 total items in Category:International Sesame Street Characters (Muppets, locally made puppets, humans, cartoons, and unseen) so it seems a little early to get into further subcat creation. -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 21:34, 6 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, as you know, I've gotten a lot more involved with the international stuff lately, and I've been building out more pages in a bunch of areas.


 * We made the decision to keep everything together in 2006 because at the time we didn't have much on anything, except Sesamstrasse and Sesamstraat. Now, we've assembled a lot more, and there's also just more info out there on the web to find and collect.


 * I think the ideal is that eventually, frog willing, we would have a full-blown category for every production that's lasted longer than a season. We've been collecting a lot more about Plaza Sesamo, Sesam Stasjon, Barrio Sesamo and the French shows, and those categories have gradually been taking shape. It's happening organically over time, as we get more information on any individual co-production. Maybe we'll have enough about Vila Sesamo to make a big category someday; maybe not.


 * So my thought is to let those categories keep growing, and see what happens. We shouldn't hold the potential Plaza Sesamo category back just because we didn't have a lot of info in 2006. At the same time, though, a one-season show with four characters may not need its own category... It can grow into that when there's more to say. Sound good?


 * By the way -- I've been kind of absent from the wiki for the last week because I hurt my shoulder, and I've been trying to avoid typing when I can. I have to type all day for work, so I'm cutting down on my wiki time until my shoulder feels better. So I'm looking forward to diving in more with the policies and guidelines stuff... but I can't do it right now. I'll be better soon! -- Danny (talk ) 22:56, 6 November 2008 (UTC)


 * That's kind of what I figured (since that was also before we had subcats for merchandise). Plaza has about 12 characters and is still on the air, so that might make sense at some point (or even right now), but I'll go ahead and delete the Sesame Tree subcat. In general, I think it's easier to have one big listing, and save a subcat for when there's at least a dozen or so to make a more precise focus on that show worthwhile to users (Sesamstraat has 13 and Sesamstrasse has 28 and both continue to grow at reasonable rates). I'll work it into a rough policy later. At some point, full subcats might make sense, but if there's four or five big groups and a dozen with anywhere from two to six entries or so, I think diffusing it at that point and turning it into all subcats would just make it harder to find a specific character, especially if you forget which show it was on (and conversely, subcatting everything and maintaining a dual category as well might be doable, but also seems a bit confusing). -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 23:15, 6 November 2008 (UTC)


 * And sympathy on the shoulder. In case you missed the message, I had a tooth extraction last Monday, following a week of agony, so I'm still getting over that (and finding food I can eat until the hole fills in or stops twinging). -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 23:18, 6 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, we've got both Muppet Characters and Sesame Street / Muppet Show / Fraggle Rock characters, so there's a precedent for categorizing the same article in two places...


 * And sympathy from me about your tooth, too... I'm glad you had the extraction and it's getting better. -- Danny (talk ) 01:03, 7 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I think Muppe's kind of different, though, same thing as Creatures. Also, all of those subcats have hundreds of characters each. I'm just saying subcats for shows with two or five characters seems kind of silly, until the vast majority have a larger number, in which case one might as well subcat the one or that are left as well but keep the other category for easy alphabetical browsing. Right now, outside of possibly gathering Plaza or something similar, I don't see a real reason to start changing the system. I'm tired. -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 03:26, 7 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I totally agree. I think the system is working fine right now. We'll keep adding stuff for the different shows, and create categories as they become relevant. I think we should be open to creating new categories when there's enough in them, but we don't have to go out and create essentially empty subcats just for the sake of it. -- Danny (talk ) 18:36, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Templates
When I went to, the "Edit this page" tab is displayed as "Log in to edit." I do not think this is a good wording for fully protected templates, because if you were an established user here on Muppet Wiki, it would be confusing because...well...you're already logged in! I would suggest a better wording such as "View source" (FYI, it is shown that way on all main Wikis for fully protected pages). Thanks, Matt H.  ( talk ) 02:43, 1 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Yup. Unfortunately, the same message appears for a locked page no matter why it's locked -- so a protected page gets the same message as a page that you have to log in to edit. People have to log in to edit the wiki, so people who aren't logged in see that "Log in to edit" message on every article. We changed it to "log in to edit", because "View source" doesn't give people any information about why they can't edit.


 * So that means that someone who is logged in will occasionally see "log in to edit" when they're looking at a protected page -- but there aren't very many of those, and people don't look at them very often. So it's worthwhile to risk that rare moment of confusion in order to show everybody that they need to log in to edit. -- Danny (talk ) 08:20, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Knovergate
Hey, back in July, you added some Out to Lunch specifics for Grover Knover. Michael just added a cite tag to that. Was this after another archive visit, or did you watch the special at one of the media museums or something like that? -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 04:46, 25 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey, those script scans are awesome! Now that we have specifics, I'll probably go ahead and create pages for Skip Hinnant and Jim Boyd, since they also worked with the Muppets in the cross-over skits on Electric Company. (At the time, you were leery and suggested the trivia notes on The Electric Company page, but that's become unwieldy and now we have more than enough Muppet relevant details.) -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 17:21, 26 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, cool! I'm glad you asked about Out to Lunch -- it made me dig through some old files that I haven't looked at in a while. I've been spending the weekend unearthing some neat stuff from my old MuppetZine days, finding the sources for some of the stuff that I wrote about in the zine. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 23:47, 26 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I did the same thing with my mountain of recorded VHS tapes, just emptying my shelves and gfast forwarding through poorly labeled videos and finding Piggy on AFI's 100 Years... 100 Stars (with bad reception), two first season Big Bag episodes, a syndicated promo for Dinosaurs (reworking Dr. Elliott Piaget as "Rad Reptile" and redubbed by Jim Cummings to promote Baby Sinclair as part of the species "Gasotops"), and assorted flotsam. In my case, the urge was possibly partially induced by the combination of meds I'm on (mostly tired now, though, and my tooth will be extracted tomorrow). -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 23:56, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

No Business Like Show Business
Hey! Quick question. Playbill recently announced the confirmed cast list of the Emmet Otter stage show. Matthew Furtado is a swing and one other was in the film The Producers, but otherwise nobody has any connections. Still, it fits our very basic definition for stage show performers (moreso than some of the random Cookie suit people) and it could be good info to have (and hopefully images will surface later). I know you've been re-assessing what's relevant to the Wiki (Sid, still need to delete some of those pages, and the international stuff), but there probably isn't a question on this one. I just thought I'd ask anyway before I, at least, start adding redlinks and so on (especially since I noticed users are starting to link the Muppet character pages to the stage show page, and that would look nicer and less messy if we could also link to the relevant actor). Get to this when you can, I think I'm going to lie down (celebrated my birthday week with a cold and a severe abcessed tooth which will be pulled on Monday; not the traditional festivities, but it's mostly been okay anyway, new meds [been on for a couple months and recently added mood stabilizers] definitely been helping to cope). -- Andrew 21:32, 24 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, good question. My first thought (without having looked at anything) is to try to keep it to one page for now. We can always expand to more. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 21:49, 24 October 2008 (UTC)


 * That's probably fair enough for now. I'll work the names in later (I may redlink the actress who plays the music store owner, since as I said she was also in The Producers so that solidifies the connection). All things considered, probably be better to wait until the play opens anyway, if any reviews or images surface and so on. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 04:45, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

merchandise
Heya. I have no idea where it was that we discussed the format we use for creating merchandise pages. Do you know where that is so we can link to it from Sandbox:Policies and Guidelines? —Scott ( talk ) 03:06, 24 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Part of it was on Current events, which is archived here... There's probably more. I'll see what else I can find, and if I can't find more, I'll try to write up how it works. (If I can figure out how it works.)


 * That sandbox page is fantastic, and we really need it! -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 17:30, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Emails?
I just wanted to make sure you've been getting my recent emails. --MuppetVJ 00:12, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Simon's First Appearance
I noticed that you mentioned Episode 0406 as Simon Soundman's debut on his talk page. I don't know if you have any sources stating that to be true, but I don't think it's true, though it's his earleist-known appearance. I think that the sketch where Simon comes to Ernie's apartment becaus ehe needs to use a phone was his first appearance, and he looked considerably different there. I think that segment debuted in the first season. It's been a long time since I read All About Sesame Street (which was reprinted in it's entirety at the Hooperfan's Sesame Street website), but I recall that book describing that sketch at one point (though Simon wasn't referred to by name in that description), and the book is from 1971. Hmmm, now that I think about it, do any of the CTW program summaries mention him by name when his skecthes are mentioned (it would probably be easiest to check EKAs for each page that would have come from CTW archive documents before checking)? --Minor muppetz 03:44, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, sorry -- I mentioned 0406 without really looking deeply into things; I just wanted a rough idea of how far back he went, compared to the 1993 appearance. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 20:56, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Episode 979 - Crack Monster animation
No, I didn't edit the episode 979 page from memory. This holy grail of all Sesame Street Clips first aired on February 10th, 1977 during the first 15 minutes of episode 979. I know this because I have the 4 paneled story board from Karen at the CTW Archives. If this is where you get your info, you should have this too. Would you like me to fax it to you, or scan and email it? I would be happy to. I have every segment of this episode...as of right now, you don't. -- Jarmond
 * I think a scan would be a good idea. Anything you've got for that show is worth showing, to source the information. -- MuppetDude 15:51, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'd love to see a scan. You can upload your scans to the wiki using the "Upload image" link on the sidebar. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 21:03, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

I uploaded the storyboard scan. When you get it, please return the Crack Monster to his rightful place in this episode. There are many of us searching for this clip which first aired on 2/10/77 on Episode 979. It's been haunting me for 30 years. I need to see it again, but this storyboard is all I have, alas.
 * Here's the scan:[[Image:SS Crack in Wall.PDF]] It's a page from the CTW archives. Jarmond, these don't list every segment in the show, but lists a good amount of stuff in the show that wasn't listed before. I've updated Episode 0979 to correspond. -- MuppetDude 15:51, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I've looked at the scan, and I don't see anything. What's going on? --Minor muppetz 02:58, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
 * You have to click the link under the "A" logo. -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 05:24, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

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