User talk:Aleal

Sing a Song of the Template
Okay Kiddo, I've gone thru every single song and updated any templates used, so the new template can now be put into effect, and I'll go thru and start adding the publisher information, and hopefully there will be no broken links anywhere! HOORAY! --Nate Radionate 19:03, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
 * And I'm confused. Are you the one whose going to revert the new template?  Or is Scott?  The publisher field isn't showing up on anything I've entered in yet.  --Nate  Radionate 01:55, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Scott made the announcement, so I figure'd he'd planned on doing it or had already done it. Hold on to your trousering, my music-loving friend. --Anmdrew, Aleal 02:07, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you my friend! I just was afraid maybe I was supposed to push some magical button or something!  --Nate  Radionate 02:17, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Please Don't Push the Red Button! --Andrew, Aleal 02:19, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

User name warning
We've been using the User Name warning a lot lately, so I'm trying to make it a little nicer. You can see the new version at Template:Username. What do you think? -- Danny Toughpigs 17:53, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I like it! I also like the fact that the new text basically allows us to use it if they don't respond after the first welcome, but before they reach the five edit limit (or even in lieu of a welcome), so they're fully aware of the policy, and nobody can say we're just shoving this on users unexpectedly. Especially as at least one of the new anonymous folks actually seems to be trying to communicate (see Talk:A Muppet Family Christmas), rather than just tossing in stuff which might not fit in. (It will also make it easier on us, theoretically anyway, next time someone comes round to lambast us). -- Andrew, Aleal 18:00, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think it would work instead of a welcome -- it's friendlier, but not that friendly. :) But hopefully it'll help guide more people to signing up. -- Danny Toughpigs 18:04, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
 * True. The UK Fraggle fan added some useful information to The Captain, for example, and seems willing to talk. (On the other hand, the guy adding nonsense and opinions to Waiter Grover and Typewrite Guy, we don't really want around). --Andrew, Aleal 18:08, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Peter suggested also sprucing up the welcome message. What do you think of Template:Welcomenew? -- Danny Toughpigs 00:32, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Even though the placement of the Kermit Eye question box makes me think of Real Player somehow, I like it! --Andrew, Aleal 03:17, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Muppetfest
I started adding the text from my "Muppetfest Memories" zine to Muppetfest last night. There's a lot of information and quotes in there that I think would be helpful for the wiki, and it's nice to have a detailed description of the convention here. Still, that makes it a very different page from everything else on the wiki. What do you think about the format? Is it okay to put all that here? -- Danny Toughpigs 14:34, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmmmm. I like the way we've been cleaning up the fandom section, so a page like Muppetfest is useful. There's only two things I'm not sure about. One, is sentences like "Kirk welcomes us." I know the article is different from others, but as we're trying to cut down on "us" and "you" outside of community pages, and as its only present in that first section (the second portion uses "The panel takes questions from the audience" and the like), it sticks out quite a bit. The other thing I'm wondering about is the use of first names, though that's more of a general issue. A lot of pages on the site, including the majority of the performer bio pages like Jim Henson or Jerry Nelson use the first names. I know the natural tendency is to think of the puppeteers as Jim and Frank and Jerry and Steve (I do it myself), but even though we're not Wikipedia and shouldn't have to follow their guidelines, it looks a bit awkward and makes the pages seem more fannish (and especially odd on the Jim Henson page, juxtaposed with the incredibly graphic details of his death). Now, as Muppetfest was explicitly a fan convention, with the participants using first names throughout and no doubt encouraging the audience to do so, the issue's a little different. In the context, I think it makes sense (just as in the context of a Muppet Show episode description, it makes sense to refer to Harvey Korman as Harvey, but would look odd on his own bio page). But I also think it's worth discussing these distinctions and where to make them.
 * And on a more general note, is there a way to break up the Day One introduction or format it a bit differently? It's a little hard to read (on the other hand, the bold names on the panel, and starting each section with the person's name, is very helpful. I like it!) --Andrew, Aleal 14:47, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, re-reading the intro text, I see it also makes it explicit that everything that follows is verbatim from Muppetfest zine. So in that case, that probably takes care of most of my concerns. --Andrew, Aleal 14:52, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'm still playing with it. I was wondering about the "us", so I'll see if I can change that to "the audience". The "Day One: Introduction" stuff does look hard to read. Should I put in more bolding at the top of the paragraphs, like there is in the other sections? That seems to anchor the text, and give the reader's eye a place to rest. -- Danny Toughpigs 15:34, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
 * To paraphrase Wikipedia, "Be bold." I think that really does help. Breaking up the pages is an interesting suggestion too (by days seems the most logical approach). On the whole, it's shaping up really nicely (and definitely should be on "Today on Muppet Wiki" once it's finished). Apart from being a great read, it also makes it easier to pick out bits of info to add to the character or performer pages, and an easy way to cite it. Later today, I so need to add the Hoboken ref to New Jersey). --Andrew, Aleal 15:38, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'm hoping people will mine it for quotes and information for other parts of the wiki. I also did a long transcript of an MT&R panel in MuppetZine, with Frank Oz, Jane Henson, Jerry Nelson, a whole buncha people. Maybe I'll add that later. It also might be cool to do a transcript of the Muppet Rarities panel from MT&R. I think that stuff is fair game for the wiki. -- Danny Toughpigs 15:45, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Earl Kress
Good call on Earl Kress. Completely irrelevant. It's apparently some guy who blows a lot of hot air on the MC forum, so Michael wrote a detailed article about him. I think FanFiction and Earl Kress were both descriptions of MC forum conversations, which I don't think are appropriate here. -- Danny Toughpigs 14:23, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Michael Schupbach
FYI: User:24.193.157.108 just deleted the picture on Elmo Angler Fish, and left this note on the page: "Please note that all images from michaelschupbach.com have specific copyrights listed and cannot be used, without written permisison." It's probably Michael himself, visiting the wiki and annoyed that we've taken his pictures. And fair enough.

So I left an apology on User talk:24.193.157.108, and I deleted the images from Elmo Variants (Angler Fish and Mouse), Muppet Doctor and Yo-Yo, which also had photos from his site. If we want pictures for those puppets, we'll have to take them from screenshots. -- Danny Toughpigs 18:18, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I confess I used the doctor pic as a stopgap until I could afford to buy the West Wing set (which takes lower priority than Fraggle Rock, naturally). Sometimes I'm awfully contrary in how I use images (sometimes I'll fret about whether it would be passable or even go so far as to contact someone for permission, and sometimes if I'm tired or lazy, I'll just stick something in and then utterly forget where I got it from). Actually, coming so close on our discussion of images, this raises a question. Should we try to avoid taking images from portfolio sites in general unless permission has been granted, or just keep them up til somebody complains? (I'm not sure whether or not to mention this in current events, because unlike a lot of topics, this is more of an admin issue, since whatever we decide, if someone still uses those kinds of images, it will be up to us to remove or allow them). --Andrew, Aleal 18:42, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Honestly, I dunno. Looks like it's a good idea not to use photos from portfolio sites, when we know that's where they came from. Luckily, it's easy to take stuff down if somebody has a problem with it. We're going to be getting more attention as this goes on -- I just looked up Michael's name on Google, and we're the #5 result. The upside of that is that people will be able to add more information, or correct stuff. The downside is that if we took anything from their site, they're going to know about it. I don't think we need a policy about it or anything. It's just good for us to keep this stuff in mind. -- Danny Toughpigs 18:51, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, I removed the one other image I know I took from a portfolio site, Paul Andrejco's, from Bulldozer, just to be safe. None of these are really important characters anyway, though the images looked nice and helped frame the designer/performer info, and almost all the Elmo's World stuff is on DVD now anyway (I only own two, thanks to cheapskate drugstores and limited opportunity to get to a K-Mart or Best Buy). I'm also thinking of removing the one from Blustering Bellowpane Monster, not as much because it came from [Sal Denaro's site], but because Denaro identifies that puppet as being for The Muppet Movie and really the insect puppet doesn't look to me at all like the bellowpane monster "with a different nose." Like you say, an official policy probably isn't needed, but the better we are about it, the easier it will be to *request* use of the images or maybe even for some of these folks to start uploading it themselves (not essential if you already have a portfolio site, but we're clearly helping their site hits, so it couldn't hurt). --Andrew, Aleal 19:02, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

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