Talk:Sesame Street News Flash

Kermit News
I'm starting to think that the offiical title for these segments is "Kermit News", and not "Sesame Street News Flash", even though the logo says "News Flash" and Kermit often refers to it as "Sesame Street News". Evidence includes the titles for chapter stops on the Old School sets, some of the clips in the Sesame Street Video Player (though some skits are merely listed as "News", as opposed to "Kermit News" or "Sesame Street News"), the fact that the theme music title is "Kermit News Theme", and also the fact that a draft of the script for Telly Monster's first appearance (scans of which can be founbd at Talk: Telly Monster) ists one segment as Kermit News. I'm not saying that we should change the article title (most people would probably just type "Sesame Street News" or "News Flash" anyway), but we should probably make "Kermit News" a redirect here (I've already typed that in the search engine, and it's not a redirect). --Minor muppetz 21:58, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think chapter stops and clip labels and the rest are really evidence for anything (and we know shorthands was often used in these cases), but as for a redirect, that makes sense, anytime it's a phrase people are likely to search for and raises no disambiguation issues. Go ahead and create it. -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 22:06, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I thought only moderators could make redirects. I don't know how to make a redirect. --Minor muppetz 22:15, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Twenty Years and Still Counting
The article says that Kermit asks "can you tell me how to get to Sesame Street?" three separate times. Does that include the opening scene when Bill Cosby begs Kermit to ask him the question and then admits that it doesn't really work in his case?Garrettk41 04:10, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * No, probably not. The three times listed all begin with the "News Flash" logo, and that opening scene doesn't. --Minor muppetz 21:58, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

An Article for Jack
Being that Old School Volume 2 contains the News Flash involving Jack Be Nimble, I personally think someone ought to put up an article about Jack. There's certainly more to him than there is to some of those characters who have their own pages. I'm not so great at writing articles, and I don't even know how to put up characters pictures, but if anyone does, I think they should create a page for Jack. Who agrees? Garrettk41 20:54, 30 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, I did see him again on a Season 25 street scene where he went to Finders Keepers to look for something new to jump over.Jonnytbird4789


 * Jon, it's you. Looks like there's three of us youtube users who use Muppet Wiki as well. If it's true that he appeared in another episode, that's all the more reason why he should have his own page. Do you have a good picture of him to contribute to it? Garrettk41 23:24, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

EKAs

 * Episode 2475 - Don Music: The Alphabet Song
 * Episode 3104 - Fairy Tale: Jack and the Beanstalk
 * Episode 3138 - Mumford's Big and Small Trick
 * Episode 2258 - Dr. Nobel Price: The Great Poonga-Poonga

Danny removed these redlinked EKAs, so I'm parking them here until they can be verified. —Scott ( talk ) 04:56, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

"Urgent Version of 'Sesame Street' Theme..."
The music used for the News Flash was not an "urgent version of the 'Sesame Street' theme." It was really more of a "BEEP a beep a beep, BOOP a boop a boop..." It was definitely NOT the SS theme. --GroscarTheOuch 04:28, 1 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I can hear the SS Theme comparison. It sounds to me like the beeps and boops play the main notes to the first line of the theme. Try listening to it and slowly humming "Sunny days, sweeping the clouds away..." Anybody else have a comment? -- Danny (talk ) 11:43, 1 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I didn't realize it at first either, until recently when I did a similar comparison. —Scott ( talk ) 13:39, 1 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The syllable count is almost the same (9 notes versus 10 notes), but the melody isn't. --GroscarTheOuch 01:37, 2 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The melody is exactly the same, they just duplicated the same notes to create a staccato. (listen here) I only did the first three notes because the announcer comes in after that, but use your imagination and compare again and you'll see that it's there. —Scott ( talk ) 02:39, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

1990s Replacement
So they stopped making making 'Sesame Street News Flash' after Jim Henson's death. But I wonder if the format didn't sort of metaphorse into Fairy Tales Today, with Praire Dawn as a newscaster who used to interview people (I think via a video link) or some such, during the early 1990s. Emma 22:10, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Something's wrong with this article!
When I come to the article page, it appears for one second, then leads me to a blank screen! Can someone repair this please? --Wile e2005 23:32, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Wow. Yeah, that's weird. I'll write to the Wikia tech folks about it. -- Danny (talk ) 00:50, 10 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The Wikia folks are working on it... Angela was playing with it in the Sandbox this morning. They're trying to figure out why it's disappearing. I'll let you know if I hear anything... -- Danny (talk ) 12:05, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

ordering, part 3
I'd like to get rid of Sesame Street News Flash: Recurring Themes and replace the main SSNews page with a sortable table I've set up at Sesame Street News Flash (sandbox). I was the biggest proponent for splitting the new page off, but the ability to sort the list takes care of my previous concerns. Plus, we don't really need to be maintaining two SSNews pages, one of which basically mirrors 75% of the main page. —Scott ( talk ) 02:08, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * While I agree with you that we don't need the extra page, and the sortable table seems nifty, I can't quite figure out how it's supposed to work. I mean, it re-arranges when I fiddle with the arrows, but I don't see how to get it to display, say, by themes or whatnot. Or if that's what it's doing, there's no clear order or anything. I think this could work, but I also think the table could use some brief explanation for the casual visitor. -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 02:15, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * It's alphanumerical, hence the summary prefixes (Don Music:, etc.). I'll adjust the text so that it's more clear. —Scott ( talk ) 02:27, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I love it! Can we change "Folk Tale" to "Fairy Tale"? -- Danny (talk ) 03:40, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I used Folk Tale because I thought it was more accurate as a catch-all for the sketches where I used it as a prefix. Fairy Tale is more specific, and I think it's better to stick with the broader definition. —Scott ( talk ) 04:05, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I think the only things on the list that aren't Fairy Tales are Alice in Wonderland and Santa Claus, and those aren't folk tales, either. I think if you take those out, Fairy Tales works fine. -- Danny (talk ) 04:31, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I'll take Alice out, but Santa Claus comes from folklore. I'm not married to the idea of keeping him there though. —Scott ( talk ) 04:46, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, then it's all fairy tales except for Santa Claus. -- Danny (talk ) 04:58, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, that's what I'm saying. The phrase "Folk Tale" is more inclusive. —Scott ( talk ) 05:01, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I just think it makes more sense to take the odd one out. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 05:25, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Ordering sketches
Now that we've redone all the sketch pages, I don't think this page's organization fits anymore. All of the other sketches are ordered by the Earliest Known Appearance. This one splits up the sketches into various categories. A few times lately, I've linked from an episode page to this page, and I've had a hard time finding the sketch I'm looking for, because it's not in episode order. Can we talk about merging these different categories, the way the other pages are? -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 18:24, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * We talked about this in August and it still doesn't make sense to me to split them up. All of my points are written below, so I feel like I've already made my case on this. If a vote falls in favor of mixing them all together, I would feel strongly about creating a new page just for the themed sketches. — <font color="Blue">Scott (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 02:40, 21 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I enjoy browsing the list by seeing all of the Dr. Nobel Price or Cinderella sketches in one place rather than having to purge through a mixed list erratically sorted by the earliest known appearance. I see more value in seeing and grouping the recurring themes here (for people interested in finding the Tortoise and the Hare or Little Red Riding Hood sketches) than creating a chronological order of the first appearance we've tracked down. Personally I enjoy seeing the themes rather than creating a chronology….but that's just me.
 * But if we do dump the theme sorting and mix them all in big list ordered by EKA, I would like to see additional pages for discussing and grouping the major recurring themes of Kermit's special reports - Fairy Tales (which could be sub-divided by character/story), Nursery Rhymes, History, Dr. Nobel Price and Don Music - in order to help find sketches and group/sort sketches by the recurring themes, draw comparisons and whatnot. I see more value in seeing the connection of theme or topic organized here than a list by EKA. -- <font color="Blue">Brad D. (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 03:46, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I like the idea of making a few seperate pages for recurring themes (maybe also make one that groups news reports on historical events like George Washingtons fathers cherry tree or Christopher Columbus going to discover america). However, it would be weird for there to be seperate pages listed as "Sesame Street News Flash: Dr. Nobel Price" and "Sesame Street News Flash: Don Music", because those two don't have many sketches outside of the news segments, and their own pages could easily include these skits (in fact, Don Music's page already has a listing of his skits, including all of the News Flash sketches with Don Music that are listed here). Of course, these two characters could be included in a "Sesame Street News Flash" category. --Minor muppetz 07:48, 22 December 2006 (UTC)


 * So I think what we've got are some people who would like to order it by EKA and some people who would like to order it by category. I think we could do both, but what would be the best way to do that? One separate page for "Sesame Street News Flash: Themes"? Or separate pages for "Sesame Street News Flash: Cinderella", etc? -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 23:04, 22 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Why not we put a seperate page for the News Flash (Sesame Related; Idea for Games,Mumford's Big and Small Trick, Man in Snowstorm, Monsters at School, Suzanne Farrel Don Music, Dr. Nobel Price) on one. Keep (History, Sleeping Beauty, Cinderella, Nursery Rhymes, and The Tortoise and The Hare). Ernie and Jim 23:12, 22 December 2006 (UTC)


 * They way to do it would be to break off the article where the themed sketches start and plop them into their own page. — Scott ( talk ) 01:44, 23 December 2006 (UTC)


 * What do you want to call that page? -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 01:53, 23 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I dunno, Sesame Street News Flash: Recurring Themes? — Scott ( talk ) 02:00, 23 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I say, a separate page that lists each and every sketch would be a great idea! Also, I am pretty sure that the "Rapunzel" skit was probably the first News Flash skit to be taped, but not aired until later. I know that there was a skit from Season 3 that had Herry Monster with a blue nose, but he had the purple nose by 1971, so that sketch was probably taped during production of Season 2. So I am sure that the Rapunzel one was taped during Season 3 production and first aired in Season 4. But I am sure they aired a few other news report skits before that. --Wile e2005 14:33, 23 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Whether or not there have been sketches recorded for a certain year but not aired untill a later season, I would like to point out that just because a third season episode featured a sketch with blue-nosd Herry does not mean that it was originally broadcast in that season (I've seen an episode broadcast after I was born that featured Herry with a blue nose, and I was born in 1984). Having said that, are there any official sources that state that the news segments began in 1971? I've read information about it beginning in 1971 at the Muppet Wiki, on message boards, and other places, but I don't recall seeing anything official regarding the debut year for these sketches, and there aren't any third season episode pages here that mention that they have any Sesame Street News Flash segments. Then again, the Rupunzel skit could actually be from the first season, and the Old School Volume 1 DVD could have made a mistake regarding the season (the Old School page mentions that some of the skits listed as being from the first season are obviously from later seasons). --Minor muppetz 17:36, 31 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Right. The DVD might have made a mistake there. It probably wasn't taped in the first season, since Jerry Nelson (the Muppeteer of Rapunzel there) didn't join the show until the second season. So it might have been taped between 1970 and 1972. But the only way we'd find out is if there was a vault or something like that of old Sesame Street Archives :P, or if we had a veteran Sesame Street/Muppet staff member here. --71.192.122.49 15:00, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, I mean tthat it could have been from the third season, and mistakenly said that it could have been from the first season. I trust that most of the years that the classic cuts segments were listed as are correct (but we never know). --Minor muppetz 16:07, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

News Flash or Sesame Street News?
This page is listed as Sesame Street News Flash, but I just recently started to think. I don't think there have ever been any official references to it being called Sesame Street News Flash. The logo just reads "News Flash", while Kermit often begins his reports by saying, "This is Kermit the Frog for Sesame Street News", and there have been other mentions of Sesame Street News, and the announcer usually just says something like "We take you now to Kermit the Frog for another fast-breaking news story". Should we keep this listed as Sesame Street News Flash, or should it be listed as either Sesame Street News or News Flash? --Minor muppetz 00:02, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Each segment is a news flash for Sesame Street News. I think the title is appropriate. — <font color="Blue">Scott (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 03:17, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * That's good to know. --Minor muppetz 03:24, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * At the beginning of the 1985 News Flash about the Three Pigs' emotions after the wolf attack, the announcer says, "And now, a Sesame Street News Flash! We understand that some unfortunate piggies have just been left homeless! We take you now live to our reporter on the scene, Kermit the Frog!" Hope that helps. (BTW the logo seen with this announcement was the mid-80s "Flashing" version.) --Wile e2005 13:01, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Old School DVD set
I just found out that the Rapunzel News Flash is going to be featured on the Sesame Street: Old School DVD set! A clip shows up in the preview on the official website, digitally remastered, too. So I added that bit of info to the site. --Wile e2005 01:24, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Old Woman in a Shoe
I just saw the skit on Youtube (and uploaded a pic from it here)

[dead link]

Although the user says it's from 1978, it DOES look a bit older than 1983. I know because it has the larger News Flash title card used from 1974 to 1979 (in 1980 it was made a bit smallera and the black stars became yellow). So I removed its earliest known appearance being that 1983 episode, since it appears to have been shown earlier than that. --Wile e2005 20:08, 16 October 2006 (UTC)


 * This reverts to our earlier discussion, though. Just because you think the skit "looks a bit older" doesn't alter the fact that a specific episode is the "earliest known" appearance in our database. That's why the "known," and not just "earliest appearance." Scott sort of addressed this issue at Category talk:Sesame Street Sketches, in a way, though nothing has really come of it yet. Removing an episode link because you think it debuted earlier than that doesn't help. Finding a specific, earlier episode link, or as Scott suggested, reformatting to include all episode appearances (still of mixed opinion on that} would help. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 20:16, 16 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh. Well, it's just that once the Cinderella Ball skit had it's "earliest appearance" listed in a 1985 episode and that is semi-wrong. I mean, so far we know that it first appeared in that episode on our database. Hopefully when the DVD set comes out next week we can find out the episodes where the old News Flashes actually debuted! --Wile e2005 21:30, 16 October 2006 (UTC)


 * We hope that we can nail down some more episodes. For now, though, don't take any episode numbers out, okay? We know that these aren't necessarily the earliest episode. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 21:43, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

"Guess when each took place" :P
I agree the guessing its first appearance and posting it in the article is stupid, but we CAN guess when it first appeared, but not post anything until we get an actual early episode with a News Flash's debut. But we DO know the years some of them appeared, by the Sesame Skit Database on Muppet Central Forums and on some of the skits uploaded on Youtube. I CAN tell a 1971-1973 News Flash, however, by how Kermit had a brown fedora instead of a gray one, and how the News Flash logo looked different (you'll see the variants in the article). --Wile e2005 12:10, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I think we should only list earliest known appearances when it's actually known -- that is, when we have a specific episode. The database on the Muppet Central forums is only useful if it's backed up with episode numbers. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 17:10, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * That is what I meant. Once we find an episode from around 1971-1974, it will be probable that the episode will be a News Flash sketch's first appearance. It would also greatly come in handy for the "Tortoise and the Hare" skit (the proto-News Flash "Sesame Street Sports" segment) and the "Rapunzel" skit (the first "official" News Flash). --Wile e2005 12:02, 28 September 2006 (UTC)


 * No, we shouldn't automatically assume that just because a certain sketch debuted in a certain season and is in an episode from that season that it is the first episode featuring that sketch. Sesame Street repeated most of it's sketches regularly, and the show used to have nearly 130 episodes per season, so a certain sketch could have been seen 20 or more times during the season that it debuted in. The only way we could truly know for sure when a sketch debuted is if one was to watch every Sesame Street episode since "Sesame Street News" debuted in order, but that would probably to difficult. --Minor muppetz 13:26, 28 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I know. But as I said, if we see an episode from 1971 to 1973 with a News Flash on it, then chances are that it's that skit's debut. For others we know DEFINITELY did not debut on episodes we have listed in our episode guide: the Cinderella at the Ball skit from the early 70s appearing in a mid-80s episode, the one about the Holiday mix-up (which appears to be from the mid-to-late 70s) seen on a 1983 episode, etc. A good example of this is the 1971 "Miss Muffet" News Flash; the print we have was taken from a 1986 episode, according to MuppetVJ. We wouldn't list that on the main article, but if we had a page about that 1986 episode it would include describing the 70s News Flash in it. --Wile e2005 13:40, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


 * It's impossible for us to know exactly when each News Flash skit premiered. Maybe someday we'll uncover secret Sesame files with details on every sketch -- but for now, we have to go with the episodes that are currently in circulation. As much as possible, we should go with the facts that we know, rather than a guess -- even if it's a good guess.


 * "Earliest Known Appearance" means that this is the earliest episode that we know for sure included this sketch. It's not intended to be the final answer. As we add listings to more episode pages, we'll find earlier examples for some of these, and we can change the information then. For now, unless we've got an earlier episode number, the "EKA" should stay as it is.


 * If you guys are interested in tracking down more News Flash sketches, then please add some listings to the Sesame Street episode pages. There's tons of episodes that don't have any listings yet. There's a lot of Unpaved episodes that haven't been done yet, and there's old episodes airing every day on Sprout and Noggin. It would be awesome if you guys could add some info to those pages, and that would help us find more sketches! -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with Danny. But having said it all out loud like that makes me realize that the way we're doing it might be slightly misleading. There will be others who come here thinking that we might be claiming something else, or don't know what we're talk about. I propose listing all of the episodes in which the skits appeared. That way, when listed chronologically, you can see the earliest known appearance, but it also doesn't suggest something that it's not. Very clearly, it's a list of episodes in which the skit has been confirmed to have been seen. — <font color="Blue">Scott (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 20:58, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

section edit links
I've removed the section edit links on this page. In order for the table's column widths to match between each section, I've used colspan tags to maintain a single table. Otherwise, uneven column widths between the sections make the page look messy. However, editing a section independantly of the rest of the page tends to make edit previews look like you've broken the table. So to deter from this, contributors must edit the page from the main link and lose the luxury of section edits until I can figure out a better way to do it. I have some ideas, but won't be implementing them right away. — <font color="Blue">Scott (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 14:37, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Earliest Known Appearance
I don't think Season numbers are good enough for this column. The ambiguity of citing a season suggests that a guess could have been made as to approximately where a sketch might have appeared. An episode number, on the other hand, ensures that someone can indeed look at the episode and confirm that it's there. We are, after all, calling that column "Earliest Known Appearance." — <font color="Blue">Scott (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 18:36, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd second that, unless someone can provide a source (i.e. a 1976 TV Guide or something statement that "This season, Kermit will interview a herd of rabid sheep" or something). And that's pretty unlikely, so yeah, episode numbers work best for now. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 19:08, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I think season numbers are the next best thing for accuracy, because while "Cinderella at the Ball" appears in Episode 1575 (1981), that was definitely not the first time it was shown. --MuppetVJ 19:30, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


 * True, but the question is, how do we *prove* that a sketch came from a specific season, apart from guesing games based on how old a clip looks or sounds? How do we know Dean was correct when identifying sketches as coming from Season 10? -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


 * You might as well ask the same question about the Ernie and Bert Sketches page. If someone knows for sure it was from ______ season, they can state their reasons, and anyone who disagrees can take it to the talk page. --MuppetVJ 19:47, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


 * My problem with citing a season only, is that it looks like someone could have just said, "oh, I think this sketch looks like it's around 1977, I'm gonna say it was Season 9," or whatever. Requiring an episode number proves that a contributor saw the sketch in that episode and provides a place for it to be checked. If, at a later date, it's seen in an earlier episode (even if it was in the same season), we can change it. When we say that we go by the earliest known appearances, it doesn't mean we're saying that "this is the earliest appearance." — <font color="Blue">Scott (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 02:14, 5 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I've removed the season citations per this discussion. Whoever added the season numbers to the article can provide the episode number they saw it in, thus proving it wasn't just guess work. If you need to see what the article had been claiming as far as season numbers, here's the history before I took them out . — <font color="Blue">Scott (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 15:11, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Old Logo
According to this quote, it says... "the earliest segments began with a title card reading "news bulletin" in big white lowercase letters on top of a blue screen." I have never seen this on the News Flashes of the period, including the original 1971 versions. I mean, if you look at the Rapunzel News Flash here,(which was the first "official" Sesame Street News skit, following the original "pilot" skit (the "Sesame Street Sports" broadcast on the Hare and the Tortoise) on Youtube...

You will notice that it contains the News Flash logo we all know with the clouds and lightning (it's the original first version with the pink cloud outline and black lightning bolt). So I am pretty sure the Rapunzel skit originally had that logo since day one. Does anyone agree on me with this?

Anyways, whoever wrote about the old news bulletin title card must have seen it on a series of separate sketches from the Kermit reports and mixed it up here.

--Wile e2005 21:29, 22 August 2006 (UTC)


 * "Mixed it up?" I think not.  I recently obtained a 1986 Sesame Street episode containing the "Little Miss Muffet" News Flash skit with that original logo I described.  I thought I was seeing things, but I wasn't -- there it was, in plain view.  Once I transfer the episode to DVD, I'll upload the proof. --MuppetVJ 00:37, 23 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Maybe it was a brief one-time use of the logo in 1986. Now that you mention it, I think I remember seeing an 80s News Flash once with a different logo, but I am sure it wasn't a very early skit. I know that the Rapunzel News Flash originally had the classic lightning/stars logo, and was the first regular News Flash sketch.--Wile e2005 01:43, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Images needed
Here are images I think would go well with this article.

Besides the ones that are needed for the non-image articles, I think a screencap of the new Sesame Street News Flash logo from "Elmo Saves Christmas" (the world map one) could be used, as well as a screenshot of Kermit reporting with that other guy on Slimey's moon landing, and another on the hurricane with Kermit and Al Roker. --Wile e2005 21:11, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Telly Monster's news reports
Telly's "Monster on the Spot" seems to have replaced Kermit's "News Flash" segments during the late 80s/early 90s. The news stories he reported usually took place on Sesame Street itself (as opposed to locations from history or children's books). He also had his own opening logo and music (actually, the "Sesame Street" theme arranged to sound like typical newscast music). If I knew more about these clips, they'd get an article of their own. (Any fans out there with recordings and/or suitable YouTube links?) --Ingeborg 23:31, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Monster on the Spot would make for a great article for whoever knows anything about them. Similarly, Prairie Dawn has recently been doing some fairy tale news reporting which seems to fall in line with these two predecessors. — <font color="Blue">Scott (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 23:37, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Ordering
I think these should be ordered by the episodes that they first appeared in, not by other categories or fairy tales. I think ordering them by episode is the only thing that keeps this from just being chaos. Why should the Three Little Pigs be higher on the page than Cinderella? etc. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 02:22, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I disagree. We've ordered them by recurring themes since the page was created and there are pages all over the wiki that link directly to the sections. I also think it's more interesting and more informative to see that they did X amount of SSNews sketches on a particular theme. To keep from getting chaotic, I propose placing the themed sketches in alphabetical order like we do on every other list-like page. — <font color="Blue">Scott (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 02:25, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I ditto Scott. Especially since we're missing most of the original appearance dates.  Plus, since there's so many of them, alphabetizing makes it easier to find specific sketches. -- <font color="Blue">Joe  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 02:46, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * A problem with alphabetizing is that the "titles" that we have aren't really titles. They're just stuff that people made up, and often those people are Frackles. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 10:47, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * When I first started this guide, I guessed the order and listed the skits in how I guessed the order to be. Then people started editing the order by arranging them by theme. I like the way I originally did it better (which is how Danny is suggesting we do it). --Minor muppetz 14:28, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * "When I first started this guide, I guessed the order and listed the skits in how I guessed the order to be." See, that I'm against. Ordering by "guess" is no better than alphabetization based on arbitrary names. <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 14:56, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Looking at the history, the article was created by an anonymous user, but it would appear that it was Peter who set the layout of the page. In February, I organized them by theme, and no one had any problems with it for six months. Even after it was a featured article.
 * I still maintain that it's more interesting to group them together that way. If someone's looking for a Cinderella sketch they remember, they might find the one they're looking for at the top of a chronological list, but since it's such a large article, might never make it further down the page to see that there were at least two others with Cinderella. It's more informative and helpful this way. A Chronoligical list would be a big mess to read. — <font color="Blue">Scott (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 15:09, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * You know, I think that since "The Tortoise and the Hare" was the first skit with Kermit as a reporter, it could've inspired the Sesame Street News sketches and then they introduced the logo and series the same season (1971), starting with the Rapunzel sketch (I learned this from the Muppet Central Forum) --Wile e2005 15:43, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

My reason for wanting to order things chronologically (or at least as much as we can) is that I'd like us to get to a place where we can have episode references for as much as possible. There's a lot of Sesame stuff on the wiki that's just best guess. I'd like us to cite episode numbers much more widely than we currently do. That's why I've been working so much on the Sesame Street Episode Guide stuff -- that's raw material for putting ep numbers on things.

So at some point, I'd like to redo all the Sesame sketch pages -- Grover the Waiter, etc -- in this same table style, then try to find episode numbers for as many sketches as we can, and order them chronologically. That gives a sense of "history" to the page -- you can watch the style of the sketches develop as you read down the page.

I think seeing that the Tortoise and the Hare sketch was the very first one, and seeing what Kermit looked like then as compared to later on in the series, is more interesting than seeing it grouped with the other T & the H sketches.

I also think another way to do the grouping is to list things chronologically, and then for the first Cinderella sketch, you have a sentence afterwards that says something like "this was the first of four News Flashes with Cinderella; the next one was in 1978" -- and then point down to where that next one is. Then you get both the groups and the chronology. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 00:19, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I guess we have a difference of opinion about what's more interesting. To me, the most important thing chronologically, is the first and last sketch. We already make comment about that on the page, and it wouldn't hurt to have it part of the article's text either. As far as having them listed one way and then directing the reader with text to the next, we're doing that now by citing the first known appearances of each sketch. I think if one wants to see what Kermit looked like in 1969 versus what he looke dlike in 1972, they can do that at Kermit Through the Years. — <font color="Blue">Scott (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 00:49, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The Rupunzel skit is included as a bonus feature on Old School Volume 1, under "Season 4 Classic Cuts". So that would mean that either the Rupunzel sketch isn't the first News Flash sketch (after The Tortose and The Hare, if it's true that that was the first one) or that the news segments weren't introduced in the third season. Unless it's inclusion in the "Season 4 Classic Cuts" was a mistake made by the people who worked on the DVD. --Minor muppetz 23:58, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

images
Why were the images moved from the side of the article to a gallery? They weren't creating white space at the bottom of the article. In other words, the number of images didn't exceed the amount of text in the article. I propose they go back to the way they were. — <font color="Blue">Scott (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 20:11, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * That was me. I just thought it looked a bit disorganized since there was no order to the pictures, they didn't correspond with the text they were next to, and (in my opinion) they're prettier when you don't have to scroll all the way through the article to see them all.  If there's a consensus that the original way is better, I'll concede. -- <font color="Blue">Joe  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 20:47, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * You're a delightful mass of contradictions, Joe, as far as your gallery preferences go. <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 21:53, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I have an idea. Nobody mess with the page for a little bit, I'm going to work on it. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 22:31, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Ooh-ooh, I'll bet I know what your idea is! — <font color="Blue">Scott (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 22:35, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Hey, I said don't mess with it yet. I'm still working... -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 23:45, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * It looked like you were done, sorry. — <font color="Blue">Scott (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 23:48, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay, now I'm done. Sorry I reverted Scott and Dean's edits, but I did ask for nobody to mess with the page until I was done. I'm done now, so people can have at it. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 00:05, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Muy bueno! And Anthony, I realize I'm such an enigma, I'm just trying to help keep thing pretty :) -- <font color="Blue">Joe  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 01:37, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Don Music: a couple of nitpicks

 * 1) The Don Music sketches, as far as I remember, did not begin with a News Flash title card or a news theme. Kermit may still have identified himself as a reporter in some of them, although I'm not 100% sure of that myself.
 * 2) The band which appeared and played "Whistle, Whistle, Little Bird" didn't resemble ZZ Top musically or visually; it was a country-western group whose members included a white-haired old man in a checkered shirt (based on the Green Anything Muppet pattern).

--Ingeborg 00:52, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

I already added a note on the article about the NEWS FLASH logo not appearing on the Don Music sketches, and noted that they were produced separately from the Sesame Street News series. --Wile e2005 16:48, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I was wondering myself if they did feature openings. It's been a long time since I last saw any of them on the show. I knew that Mary Had a Bicycle didn't have an opening on Sing Yourself Silly, but I also figured that maybe the opening logo was just cut from the video release. As for the band in "Whistle, Whistle, Little Bird", I read a transcript of this sketch on a Sesame Street lyrics site and it identified the band as a ZZ Top-like band, so my misinformation came from a webmasters mistake. I didn't remember what the band looked like. --Minor muppetz 00:29, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Every episode
Is it just me, or did most 80s and 90s "Sesame Street" episodes (almost all of them) have a News Flash sketch in them? (including ones from older episodes) --Wile e2005 23:55, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


 * What is your opinion of "most"? Do you mean something that was in nearly every episode, with maybe one or two exceptions a year? Do you mean something seen as frequently as Elmo's World? I think this sketch was seen as frequently in the 1980s and 1990s as other recurring sketches (Monsterpiece Theater, Waiter Grover, etc.). I remember that the 1998-1999 season didn't feature very many Kermit sketches, and most Kermit skits shown were News skits, though not really that many (I recall four news skits shown that season, and only two other Kermit skits shown). I can also think of some other episodes from the earlier 1990s that didn't feature these sketches. --Minor muppetz 03:36, 30 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that is what I meant, a frequent recurring sketch. --Wile e2005 02:22, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Yip Yips
I've added the Old MacDonald/Yip Yip News Flash to Yip Yips, but there's no date. Anyone have even a rough guess? -- Zanimum 15:04, 8 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, in that skit, the Martians mentioned E.T., and that movie was released in 1982, so it was obviously before 1982. My guess would be sometime between 1983 and 1985. --Minor muppetz 15:22, 8 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Those are fine for guesses, but without a source, we should say early-mid 1980s. -- <font color="Blue">Scott (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 15:30, 8 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I presume you mean after 1982, Minor. Okay, I'll put it as early-mid 1980s. There's a gap from 1979 to 1987 otherwise, so it's still chronological no matter what. --  Zanimum 17:21, 8 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, I meant after 1982. --Minor muppetz 03:32, 9 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm guessing it's from 1983 to 1989 at least, because it uses the later version of the "NEWS FLASH" opening with the words in red and flashing on and off. --Wile e2005 20:05, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Sesame Street Sports
Hey, was the original "Tortoise and the Hare" segment (with Kermit in the snappy sports jacket and starting with him planning a bet) really classified as a Sesame Street News Flash, or was it from a different one-time category? (I mean, they say it's "Sesame Street Sports.") Does it even start with the "News Flash" logo and theme music or whatever? -- Wile e2005
 * The early "News Flash" sketches didn't have the logo or theme music yet... It developed slowly into the News Flash that we know. If you look at the Tough Pigs Anthology, those first three sketches didn't have a logo or theme music. There's an obvious development from the "Tortoise and the Hare" to "The big cow jump" to the Three Little Pigs. That's why we consider the early sketches like "Tortoise and the Hare" a News Flash -- it wasn't at the time, but it was part of that development. -- Danny Toughpigs 23:08, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I suppose so, but the "hey Diddle Diddle" and "Aladdin" one look recent, the two earliest ones there seem to be the first Three Pigs (from 1971) and the Cinderella Midnight Escape (the one that ends with the glass slipper getting destroyed). I can tell because Kermit had a brown fedora hat before switching to the gray one. It has the announcer scripted on them, and I am sure those two featured the title card. (I'm a member of the Closing Logo Group) The first three skits transcripted don't have the announcer scripted, but I am sure the logo was in the segments except for the Tortoise and Hare one (they must have cut them from the lines) to save time; they were posted once a month. -- Wile e2005
 * I'm not sure I know what you mean. I'm the person who did the transcription for Tough Pigs; it's my site. When I do a transcription like that, I include every word, because I know how important it is to get things like that right. -- Danny Toughpigs 02:06, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe so, but here's how I'll tell ya. Except for the first three transcripts, the others have "Anncr: We take you now to Kermit the Frog with another fast-breaking news story!" at the beginning, or some other variant. So I am sure that the first couple of skits may not have used the News Flash logo, but later ones in that year could have started using it. -- Wile e2005
 * Didn't the announcer only say his lines during the logo sequence? I know that Noggin edited every episode for time, so how do we know that Noggin didn't just cut the logo from some of the episodes with the news segments, and by coincidence the only logos that got cut were aired on Noggin in a chronological order? --Minor muppetz 20:03, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Speaking Stick
Does the Dr Nobel Price sketch with Warren Wolf have Kermit in it at all? -- Scott Scarecroe 15:04, 11 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, no. But it has the same Sesame Street News Flash intro, so I figured it was a part of the series... -- Jog 09:14, 12 February 2006 (UTC)Jog


 * Okay, that's what I was going to ask: if it used the same logo and music. Huh; so no Kermit. Weird! Are there other News Flash segments without Kermit?


 * Season 36 had a take-off from SSNF with Prairie Dawn hosting Nursery Rhyme News or something like that. They did at least a few of them and it was very reminiscent. -- Scott Scarecroe 15:26, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

The Mystery Muppeteer
Does anybody know who the puppeteer (the one in the middle) in the behind the scenes shot of the "first/last in line" sketch is? All I know is that he's the same one who played Mary in The Rhymies, and Squeaky in the Elves and Shoemaker sketch. I'm pretty sure it isn't Caroll, or John Lovelady. -- MuppetDude 17:18, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * It's obviously Caroly Wilcox. -- Deanmo19 16:47, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Uh, you do realize Caroly Wilcox is a woman, right Dean? It's definitley a man...Scooter 23:47, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I've heard tell that it could be Bob Payne. --Dave Splurge 01:54, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 * You're right; I found out it's him. He's credited in A Celebration of Me, Grover under "Segment Performers" and the Muppet in the picture has a voice that's a bit deeper than the AM girl he performs during the Super Grover montage. -- MuppetDude 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

1971 News Flash Logo?
Hey, I found the 1971 "Three Pigs" segment on YouTube. I am sure that the Rapunzel and Tortoise/Hare sketches didn't use the News Flash opening, but the Three Pigs sketch did! It's a bit different from the regular versions: it's a bit longer, it is instrumental for a few seconds before the announcer kicks in (this time he says "And now we take you to Kermit the Frog for another fast-breaking news story"), and the colors are a bit different (the cloud outline is PINK!). I imagine that this logo was originally on the sketch when it debuted in 1971. The other ones transcripted (from the mid-70s to the late-80s like the Aladdin one) not mentioning the logo could have had it edited out for timing. Anyone else notice this? --Wile e2005 20:34, 3 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Wait! The Rapunzel sketch DOES have a News Flash logo! It's the old one with the pink cloud, plus the announcer sounds different! --Wile e2005 23:18, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

"Each report often began..."
Was it each report that began with Kermit talking to someone off camera, or only often? -- Zanimum 12:55, 6 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I saw a few where after the opening, it immediately starts on Kermit saying "Uh, hi-ho Kermit the Frog here, etc." --Wile e2005 00:32, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Chronological Order
Hey, I was wondering if anyone thinks that the Sesame Street News Flash skits should be at least listed in chronological order, with their original air dates? It will be kinda hard, but I think it can be done. Here is how I can usually tell older News Flash skits from newer ones...

The first News Flash segments from the early 70s had the News Flash logo in slightly different colors (with a pink cloud outline), Kermit the Frog wearing a dark brown fedora hat instead of a gray one, plus his voice was a tiny bit different back then. A few mid-80s sketches had a variant of the logo with "NEWS FLASH" in red and flashing on and off, plus the sets looked a bit more realistic, plus there was some newer sound effects, too. Here are the years I know for them so far...

1971 Rapunzel, Pig's Straw House, Pied Piper, Cinderella at the Ball, Tortoise and Hare (semi-SS News skit)

1972 Pinocchio, Sleeping Beauty 1 (the one with the princess becoming a frog)

1974 Hey Diddle Diddle (Cow Jumps Over the Moon)

1975 Humpty Dumpty, Holiday Mix-Up

1976 George Washington's Father

1980 First Day of School (with Cookie Monster in the classroom)

1981 Speaking Stick (Warren Wolf reports this one)

1983 Spaceship on Old McDonald's Farm

1984 After the Wolf Blew the Pig's Houses Down

1986 Tortoise and Hare Rematch

1988 Cinderella Prepares for the Ball

1989 Two Trees

This is what I know so far


 * I think the logos were replaced in showings of the sketches after new logos were made. I recall the same logo being used in every sketch I've seen, but the clip montage of News sketches in The Best of Kermit on Sesame Street begins with a shot of a logo that I haven't seen elsewhere. Monsterpiece Theater has also changed it's logo on a few occassions, and skits with the earlier logos had their openigns replaced with the then-current ones. --Minor muppetz 23:28, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * That's right. In the YouTube print of "The Pied Piper" sketch it has the later version of the News Flash logo (probably made around the late-80s), but I can tell it's from 1971 because of Kermit's brown hat, and it has the Sesame Street News theme playing over the action at the end. Plus the user says it's from 1971. --Wile e2005 15:09, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Does the You Tube user cite a source for it being from 1971? Otherwise, it could just be guesswork. --Minor muppetz 16:18, 31 December 2006 (UTC)