User talk:Toughpigs

Short Pages
We've gone through this before, but could we discuss again criteria for deletion for people pages? I gather Enid Cafritz was deemed worthy, even though we know nothing save that she was the wife in Time Piece, because of the image. Are there any other requirements for short pages? Andrew Leal (talk ) 18:55, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I think a page should have more information on it than the page that it links from. The only link to Buz Suraci was The Muppet Movie, which said that he was a puppeteer. The entire text of the Buz Suraci page was: "The Muppet Movie", and a Muppet Puppeteer category tag.


 * So let's say I'm a reader on the Muppet Movie page, and I see the link to Buz Suraci's page. I say, gee, I wonder who that is, I've never heard of him. I click on the link, and I find exactly the same information that I already know. The information content of that click is zero, which is a frustrating experience for a reader.


 * The information -- that Buz Suraci was a puppeteer on The Muppet Movie -- is still on the wiki. No information has been lost. The only thing that's different is that there isn't a page with the title "Buz Suraci" anymore. In my opinion, taking out that page is essentially the equivalent of taking out a double redirect page.


 * While I was doing that, I also looked up Olga Felgemacher, another Muppet Movie puppeteer who didn't have anything on her page. I found her website, which had good information on it, so now that's on the wiki. -- Danny (talk ) 20:01, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The question is how Enid Cafritz differs. Which is why I deleted it when it first came up, though I certainly don't mind if she sticks around. It's a nice picture. I guess I should probably go ahead and add some puppeteer credits to Basil Hears a Noise. There's a bunch of them not listed anywhere, and for whom that's all we know. Olga Felgemacher looks great, by the way. It always makes me happy to see puppeteers next to puppet pigs. Andrew Leal (talk ) 20:21, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


 * And I am glad you googled before deleting this time. That definitely makes me feel better. Andrew Leal (talk ) 20:22, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I think Cafritz' page has a couple advantages over a page like Suraci's. For one thing, great picture, and that's not trivial to me. A picture is information. It shows what she looked like, and what scene she was in. She also has an actual credited role, so there's something to say on the page. If anybody felt like taking the time to expand the page, there's plenty you could say -- a text description of what she looked like, what scenes she was in, what her role in the short was. You could say that she doesn't have any other film credits. You could even say something about how her performance impacts the short as a whole. I don't know if anybody's going to get into that any time soon, but the potential is there for at least a paragraph or two.


 * For Suraci's page, once you say he was a background puppeteer on The Muppet Movie, there's just nothing else to say. We don't know how much he did, what characters he performed, or anything else about him. At some point in the future, when we uncover the secret files hidden in the Suraci family vault, then we can create the page again. So that's why I don't think it needs a page right now. -- Danny (talk ) 20:30, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Images and Animals
I checked, all of the deleted images came from User:Rhonda who is almost unqestionably the same as "Amstrong" and "Stinky." Do we leave a message, block, or just ignore? I'm not sure he/she has been back since then. Andrew Leal (talk ) 18:15, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, I figured Rhonda was already blocked. If it isn't, then yeah, block away. -- Danny (talk ) 18:18, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Piggy's Ear
Where did the information about Piggy's ear come from? Did you move it to another page? -- Scott (talk ) 03:16, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * What are you talking about? -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 03:16, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, sorry, the trivia thing. Ralph posted it. I thought it was kind of random for a trivia note; it doesn't fit, in my opinion. It's an unsourced memory from a random bystander. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 03:18, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


 * If that contributor was present, the information would fit on an article for the production being filmed. We let Vard do stuff like that. -- <font color="Blue">Scott (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 04:06, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Muppet Show Episode references
Hi Danny - I remember reading some chatter about this awhile ago, but didn't recall there was a final decision, and am having trouble finding the discussion again. From the choices at the time my own tastes ran towards "episode 511 of The Muppet Show since I found it easiest to read on the page (although awkward when read aloud) and that's what I adopted. Judging by your recent edits I'm guessing you prefer The Muppet Show episode 511 as the format.  If that's what everyone is using as the standard I can switch over so you don't have to fix all my posts. -- <font color="Blue">Merrystar  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 14:34, 24 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, there wasn't much of a consensus in that discussion. I know Scott prefers The Muppet Show episode 511, and he's won me over to that side. I don't know what everyone else is using. If you wouldn't mind, then yeah, that's the one I prefer. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 15:03, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Random character vandal
Hi, Dan. Just tagged a bit of random number gibberish called Mexico for deletion. I'm thinking of copying the Wikipedia deletion template over here so as not to confuse the info in the present template with being part of the nonsense text. - Lucky 6.9 06:26, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Creature Shop Video
Hey, Danny. I've been trying to look at which categories are either empty or only have one item, and see which ones could be fleshed out in time or which ones are redundant or unneccessary. For example, I'm debating whether to delete Creature Shop Locations, for example, since Peter moved the Dark Crystal stuff into the main category, and I guess there's really no reason not to do so with the other two, and I can only think of three other possibles right now (Farscape, The Witches just because it has Norway and the real hotel used in it, and MirrorMask). Anyway, along those lines, I stumbled upon Category talk:Creature Shop Merchandise. The only item in it is Creature Shop Video, and the only item in *that* is the Jack and the Beanstalk DVD, which is also DVD. I'm asking mainly because you've been filling out the Creature Shop movie pages lately, on the off chance you wanted to keep it to dump in video/DVD info for other Creature Shop Movies, unless you just wanted to stick those in general DVD. <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 01:38, 24 May 2006 (UTC)


 * No, I don't really care about Creature Shop stuff, actually. I just added the cast lists because I wanted more celebrities. You can move that stuff anywhere you want. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 01:40, 24 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Heh. I'm not a big Creature Shop fan either, Dinosaurs and Dreamchild aside, yet the locations and production design aspects intrigue me (and all the British actors who were also in Agahta Christie and Wodehouse stuff, but that's a given). Anyway, since Jack's already in DVD, I'll just nuke both categories. <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 01:43, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Pictures
I think I decided not to upload any picture for Giddy-Up, since they were both google things I found and not something I scanned in myself. Also, I didn't want to take the time to edit them. Sorry. Wiesnerc 01:37, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

My talk page
Dan, could I possibly impose on you not to restore your comment to my talk page? I can take a bit of criticism since I'm a really big boy, but please e-mail me with your concerns rather than paste them to a public page. I'd like to actively start editing again and I'd appreciate the opportunity for a fresh start. Feel free to read the comment I left at Andrew Leal's talk page. Thanks. Sincerely yours, Lucky 6.9 05:34, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


 * On the contrary, my talk page is a personal space by Wikia's own rules. Please respect it.  Thanks. - Lucky 6.9 05:36, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Where do you see that? -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 05:38, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

My bad; it's a house rule at Wikipedia. - Lucky 6.9 05:41, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Parking the comments from User talk:Lucky 6.9 here:

Hi Ralph: Actually, Angela didn't unblock you, I did. She wrote to me and asked if there was a reason why you were blocked. I unblocked you because my only reason was to see what would happen when you made another grand return.

Basically, I was tired of seeing your announcements that you were leaving and returning. You've added to a few things, but most of your contributions are about your comings and goings. I got sick of hearing about it. -- Danny Toughpigs 09:51, 19 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Hey, Ralph! Danny wasn't being rude, just honestly explaining why you were blocked and also why you were unblocked. There's no obligation for every registered user to contribute, of course, but you haven't worked on an actual article since March. So, as politely as possible, if you don't mind my asking, do you have any real interest in contributing to Muppet Wiki anymore? Like I said, there's no need for you to do so if you have other obligations, we only do it because we enjoy it. But it's also not necessary for you to tweak your user page either if you're not actually around. <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 02:49, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Ralph, please stop blanking parts of your talk page. This is what I was concerned about when I originally blocked you. Talk pages are part of the history of the wiki. You don't own this page, and you shouldn't delete conversations just because you don't like them. Please don't blank your talk page again. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 05:31, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

By the way...moving the comments here are just as bad if not worse. I'll ask you again: Please remove these unnecessary comments and leave them as part of the edit history. Thank you. - Lucky 6.9 05:42, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Ralph, my initial concern was that you seemed more interested in your user page and talk page than in actually contributing to the wiki. Please feel free to prove me wrong by going ahead and contributing to articles. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 05:44, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm looking forward to it. That's why I returned to update my pages. Thanks. - Lucky 6.9 05:47, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Templates
Hey, I saw the theme template. Very nice, and also useful for "very special episodes" of other shows (like Dinosaurs anti-drug spiels, the "flooping" peer pressure on Fraggle Rock, etc.) It occurs to me, do you think it's worth making a template to include taping dates? I don't know if it's worth trying to modify the regular template, since it only applies to a few series, but when it does apply, right now we're just having to stick it somewhere under "Notes" or whatever. I'm wanting to fix up the Dinosaurs episodes eventually, but much of the run aired long after the original taping or out of order (such as the episode introducing Ethyl Phillips airing long after the Hurling Day story). Might help too with some of the debates that occurred in the past over the Muppets Tonight ordering. <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 20:49, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't know, I'm of two minds about tape dates. I think having an air date and a tape date in the same box looks confusing. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 20:55, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Good point. Is there some other way to communicate the order, though? In some shows, it didn't matter, or with Fraggle Rock, the first season was deliberately taped out of order. But with Dinosaurs, it provides a clearer pattern of both continuity events and performers (I fixed the entry on Dave Goelz; he actually operated Earl Sinclair's face through the second season, but only in those episodes taped and intended for airing in the first). And as we've seen, periodically some dispute arises over Muppets Tonight based on that. <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 20:57, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I think it's good to put that under "Notes". That way, you can have the tape date, plus whatever related information is worth mentioning. For example: "This episode was taped on May 13, 1986. It was the fifth episode recorded for the season, although it aired ninth. In this episode, Hungerdunger is still wearing his pink frilly blouse, even though the blouse was eaten by termites in episode 106." Or whatever. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 21:04, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Pink frilly blouse on wheels! That reminds me, thanks for authoritatively settling the Hungderdunger issue should it come up again. Also also, should I risk the likelihood of vandalism by creating a reference page on Communism? I've got three solid references and this picture. <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 21:07, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Sure. Communism doesn't get vandalised on our wiki. Frackles, yes. Politics, no. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 02:03, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

The Woods are Full of Cuckoos
Just in case you hadn't noticed, there's a mini-situation being discussed at User talk:Hunterseamster. He's either naively tossing in info from Wikipedia, which could happen, or there's very strong evidence he's making things up, only they don't involve Italian biscuits. <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 18:39, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

cats
Should we replace Category:Ed Sullivan Show Characters with Category:Appearances Characters? -- <font color="Blue">Scott (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 15:27, 20 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Not right now, okay? Just cause of Shane's visit today. At some point, I wouldn't be opposed to Variety Show Characters. But not now. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 18:17, 20 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I didn't know Shane was here today. So, the terrorists win? -- <font color="Blue">Scott (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 18:50, 20 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Not in the long run. We just need to do some homeland security for a while. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 21:05, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Danny's talk archive

 * Muppet Wiki Talk Archives