User:MuppetArchives/Current Events 21 (July-September 2007)

Archive of Current events.

Of Muppets and Reprints
I normally don't want to spread rumors, but I was so excited today that I had to share it. I went to my local music store to order the yellow 1992 SS songbook, and also see what else is in print, and the store's computer showed an entry for Of Muppets and Men! I asked the lady what that was doing there, and she said that the music publisher Hal Leonard also owns a company that distributes all kinds of performing arts books. Well, maybe I should have tried to order that too, but I didn't want to pay full price, so I figured I'd look around when I got home. Well, I can't find anything on a new edition anywhere, and I've looked everywhere I can think of. So I'm going to go back next week when my order comes in, and I'm going to see if they have any more information. If this is true, this book will be back in print for the first time in 25 years! I'll keep you posted! -- Ken (talk ) 04:42, 12 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry, guys, I knew I shouldn't have said anything. I went back, and the store's computer showed the entry as being "permanently out of print", whatever that means.  I should have known when Amazon and even the alleged publisher's site didn't show anything.  Sorry if I got anyone's hopes up.  Oh well, back to saving my money for a used copy! -- Ken  (talk ) 04:47, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Main Page picture
I just want to remind folks to vote for the Main Page picture. Voting has dropped off a bit lately, and it's fun when people help to choose which picture goes on the front page. -- Danny (talk ) 11:33, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Wow!
I just got back from vacation, and I see that we're 75 away from 15,000! That's great! I'll do what I can to help! -- Ken (talk ) 13:48, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Online?
I was looking at our front page, and I was wondering. Does it sound better to say, "Muppet Wiki is an online collaborative encyclopedia", or is that too obvious? -- Ken (talk ) 04:39, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I think it's too obvious. -- Danny (talk ) 15:51, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Changing links to redirects to pipelinks
Hi gang. Is there some compelling reason of which I'm not aware to change links to redirects to be pipelinked? (Example: if foo redirects to bar, changing foo to foo.) Is it just to avoid the "Redirected from foo" text underneath the title? It seems like a lot of work (even with the bot) and a lot of watchlist clutter for little benefit. Powers 21:24, 18 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I've been fixing them because it makes the statistics on Special:Mostlinked work better. -- Danny (talk ) 21:31, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Sesame Street Episode Guide Milestone
Something I'd like to mention: Since I plugged in the final hole a few minutes ago, all of Sesame Street's Season 37 has been added to the episode guide. Thanks to Brian and others we also have the complete Unpaved series, nearly half of season 33, and a smattering of other episodes, but this is the first time an entire season has been represented in the fully-illustrated format. --Andrew T. 16:38, 18 July 2007 (UTC)


 * That's fantastic! We'll have all 4000 episodes someday. :) Huge props to you, Brian, Guillermo and the other dedicated episode guiders. It's a big job. -- Danny (talk ) 17:31, 18 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Woo-hoo! Great job everyone! —Scott ( talk ) 17:38, 18 July 2007 (UTC)


 * And on a related note, Wendy found the cover for My Record, which means that not only do we now have a picture of every album cover on Sesame Street Records from 1974 to 1984 (the entire run of the label), but we also have at least one album cover for every official Sesame Street record album from 1970 to 1984! Yay for Wendy, and everybody else who has added cover pictures! -- <font color="Blue">Ken  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 04:32, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

CTW Archives sources
Hi folks: I've been posting a lot of info from the CTW archives about early Sesame episodes, and I haven't really been explicit about my sources. So I posted some information about what I've found, and how other people can access it, on the Sesame Street Episodes talk page. I still have a couple more sources to add, which I'll post in a little bit.

If anybody has questions about the CTW archives info that's been posted by me or others, please let me know. We should be specific where we can about where the info comes from, giving box and folder numbers if it's possible, so that other people can check our sources if they want to.

I wish I could scan everything that we've found and post it all on the wiki, but it's literally thousands of pages of photocopies, so it's not feasible. But the archives are open to the public, so anybody can go and check them out, and I'll try to give box and folder numbers to make your search easier. I would definitely recommend it to any Muppet Wiki contributor; it's an unbelievable resource. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 15:10, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Another magazine mention
Reason Magazine published an interview with Jimmy Wales in the June 2007 issue -- and Muppet Wiki got a nice juicy plug right in the middle of it:

"Consider, for instance, the astonishing growth and readership at the Wikia site devoted to Muppets. At a little over one year old, the Muppet Wiki has 13,700 articles. Every single one is about Muppets. Interested in an in-depth look at the use of gorilla suits in the Muppet movies? No problem. Just type in "gorilla suits" and enjoy a well-illustrated article that documents, among other things, the names of actors who have worn an ape outfit for Jim Henson. There is a timeline of all things Muppet-related. An entry on China details Big Bird's reception in the People's Republic. The site is astonishingly comprehensive and, perhaps more impressive, comprehensible to a Muppet novice."

Pretty nice, yeah? The two articles mentioned are Andrew's work, so that's a big pat on the back to him. Yay! -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 20:02, 13 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Wow, that's probably our juiciest nod, yet -- and major props to Andrew! We should quote the whole paragraph at Muppet Wiki (website). —Scott ( talk ) 20:50, 13 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Congratulations to the admins, especially to Danny and Andrew...*slaps them each a high-five*  --Ingeborg 02:20, 14 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Yay for the exposure! Hope it brings us more Muppet fans! -- <font color="Blue">Ken  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 04:03, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Muppet Show Guest Bios
Should there be a standard way of presenting the bios of people who were Muppet Show guest stars? I was looking at a few of them tonight, and I noticed things are really different from page to page. Some people have an essay, and some people have what looks like a resume with years and phrases. How do other people feel about it? -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 06:05, 7 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't necessarily think that there should be a standard format for those pages; I just think that every page should be good. What "good" looks like may vary from page to page.


 * The one thing that I think should be consistent is that the Muppet involvement should be highlighted right away, in the first sentence if possible. I've seen some celeb/actor pages where I've had to skim through a couple times just to see what the connection was. Now that I think of it, I might create a box for that... -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 16:27, 7 July 2007 (UTC)


 * This is a good question, since it really affects our approach to actor/celeb profiles in general, not just Muppet Show guests. I agree with Danny that a standard format isn't necessarily needed. *But*, there's too many variants right now, which don't make for good pages. Remnants of the early days of the Wiki, for example, there's still pages with the choppy lists and sometimes no complete sentences at all for *anything*, just "Appeared on Muppet Show. Received Blank and Blank Award. Died" lurking about. And while I agree about highlighting the Muppet connection (though I'd argued in the past with Peter about it, who sometimes felt a full career bio should come first and then the Muppet/Henson stuff), it's sometimes hard to balance that while trying to provide some background on the person, especially when the person was famous enough at the time but is now obscure. So I think the first sentence, especially in those cases, should at least have some definition of what the person is famous for, at least in broad terms [dancer, musician, movie star] with maybe one outstanding credit there (especially for folks like, say, Bruce Forsyth, who without checking, I couldn't have said *what* he did, or certain athletes).


 * It especially gets hard when folks have multiple Muppet connections or Creature Shop movies, which is one reason I've been enjoying the "Character Galleries" for those: one can see a full array of what parts they played, and an image for each. While we have so many boxes as is, it does occur to me that a basic data sidebar, maybe like the movie boxes, might help, at a glance just listing what Muppet/Sesame/Creature Shop productions they appeared in, with any other specifics or quotes left to the article. It would be worthwhile to canvass some other views on this one, though.


 * Anyway, I think Avery Schreiber is a decent example of a good, if not great page. First sentence is a short definition of who he was and sets up context for his first Muppet connection, Our Place, and from there we get The Muppet Show, and then the lengthy career bio. Michael Hordern, though I could probably expand on it, also works on that level. Then we get Pearl Bailey, which seems like a perfect example of what Danny was talking about (when her sole guest star credit could easily be mentioned up front). And then Bob Hope and Julie Andrews, both of whom have enough Muppet relevance to make truly great pages, are terrible right now, choppy combinations of texts and lists and vague leaps in terms of career. Hope's is only slightly better in that it seperates the Muppet appearances, but the general bio is awful (Emma just plunked in that single Broadway credit, which is horribly out of place). Partially because of an assumption that both are famous enough that we don't need to say too much, but I don't think they're really any good as pages right now. A suggestion, which I may get to myself, might be to approach those pages, especially those with a complex Muppet history, in the way we have things like China or the Earth, a look at that person from the Muppet lens. Start off with a basic short explanation of why they were famous enough to work with the Muppets, maybe chronologically note how the Muppet work fit in to other aspects of that person's career and life, and then after all that, any additional credits or notes can be added. Again, just a few thoughts. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 17:12, 7 July 2007 (UTC)


 * A P.S. on the box idea. One drawback which comes to mind immediately is it could lengthen pages or cause minor formatting problems when pages have a lot of pictures. Also, if we do go that route, I'd think it should be avoided if there's only one Muppet-relevant credit, which can easily be upfronted as discussed. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 17:20, 7 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I know that people who have done a lot will have a more detailed bio, and they may need to look different. But I was mostly thinking about people like Petula Clark or Leo Sayer, who appeared on the show once, and that's it.  I like the essay format, and I don't like those choppy ones either, with years and phrases, but I didn't know if you guys had a preferred format, before I started changing everything. -- <font color="Blue">Ken  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 17:49, 7 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I think it makes sense to introduce who the person is with a brief synopsis of what they've done in their career, and then go on to say what their Henson/Muppet involvement is. For most people, that should be enough. There are other cases where we might want to expand their biography a bit, but not much. that's Wikipedia's job.


 * I don't think a box would really work in this case. We're starting to get a little box crazy, and as Andrew said, it could lengthen the pages unecessarily. —Scott ( talk ) 14:21, 12 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Generally I'd agree that really in-depth biographies for celebs are Wikipedia's job, since for us that honor is reserved for Muppeteers, Sesame cast members, and others who Wikipedia might overlook, like character actors. But then there's pages like Dennis Quaid, so brief that at first glance while the name and face may be familiar, it's not even entirely clear to the casual reader why the person is famous (especially since, in Quaid's case, his Muppets Tonight appearance played on his past movies). I just did some considerable work on Bob Hope, though it could probably still use some more polish, and I think that approach is enirely preferable to the spotty list; a meaty page without copying Wikipedia. It makes clearer many of Hope's trademarks, but places it within the context of his Muppet collaboration, ala China (probably additional credits could be stuck at the end if desired, but I like the way it reads this way). Other celebrity repeaters could probably benefit from the same treatment. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 04:02, 13 July 2007 (UTC)


 * That Bob Hope page is fantastic, and I think it's a great model for what celeb pages should be. The length and level of detail is completely appropriate, because all of the "Hope facts" are tied to his interactions with the Muppets. For example, the discussion of his tribute specials is relevant because of the Muppets' appearances. The article shows Hope and the Muppets as a regular presence in each other's careers in a very effective way. I think we should nominate it for Quality status, and use it as a model for future pages. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 19:45, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Size is everything
I recently put a page together for the Central Wikia site listing the ten biggest wikis on Wikia, in terms of page count. Check it out... -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 14:21, 6 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Whee, that's fun! I hope we stay in the top 10. —Scott ( talk ) 14:50, 6 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I was surprised to see WoW Wiki above Memory Alpha, but it makes sense after realizing that the WoW Wiki includes articles on individual in-game items. =)  I am a bit surprised that Memories Alpha and Beta together still don't match Wookieepedia.  (Wookieepedia is naturally larger than Memory Alpha because of differing views on what constitutes canon.)  Powers 14:07, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

frequently used templates
Folks may have noticed that there are some templates linked at the bottom of the edit window on each page now. I've seen some having trouble getting all the variables correct when they forget to copy and paste the code from the template page, so I thought this would help out. I've had them linked in Opera's stickynotes for a while so I don't have to go to the template every time to copy and paste, so I thought others who don't have Opera could benefit from the same. —Scott ( talk ) 23:04, 5 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I noticed that, and I think it's awesome. I like that it's not in anybody's way, but it's there if folks know what it is and want to use it. Very nice design. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 23:23, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

3-month experiment
Does anybody know when our 3-month experiment for making people sign in is over? Have we gotten any word about how we're doing? -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 04:16, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The three months are up next Monday, July 9th. I'll have to talk to the tech folks to know for sure, but my sense is that it's been really successful. There have been lots of new people -- and best of all, lots of people signing in just to do a couple edits. (That's the thing that people always say is the problem -- that somebody wouldn't bother to sign in just to make one edit. I think we've proven that they will.)


 * So I'll talk to the folks next week, and see what the results look like. As far as this wiki is concerned, there's no problem at all, and there won't be any change. In fact, if we didn't mention it to anybody, they'd probably forget all about it, and we'd just go on like this forever. The real point of the experiment at this point is to see if I can start expanding it to other wikis on Wikia, and hopefully making it an option that any wiki can use. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 23:22, 5 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Yay! Today Muppet Wiki, tomorrow Wikipedia! -- <font color="Blue">Ken  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 06:02, 6 July 2007 (UTC)