User talk:Merrystar

Super Grover bisque
Hi Wendy. I'm not quite sure what a bisque is, or how it's different from a PVC or other figurine, but I know you've been doing a lot of work with them. If you do a CTRL-F on this page for This uncommon find it will take you to a Super Grover figurine that the seller can't identify. Do we have any means of tracking something like that down? —Scott ( talk ) 21:20, 20 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Oops, nevermind -- looks like you already took care of it [[image:tongue.gif]] —Scott ( talk ) 00:58, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Yup, although I should grab the bigger pic. Bisque is ceramic rather than plastic.  In general on the SS figurines, if I haven't found a seller who can id them or we don't have a description on the wiki already, it's pretty hard to track them down.  I've got a whole directory of "unidentified" pvcs (most of which are probably from Tyco playsets if I had to guess).  I'm a bit surprised Super Grover isn't marked because I've seen the bottoms of some (admittedly bigger) Enesco pieces and they were clearly stamped.  But it's hard to imagine that there are two of them out there, and I've never seen anybody but Enesco do bisque figurines.  -- Wendy  (talk ) 01:07, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * And you beat me to getting the image. :o)  -- Wendy  (talk ) 01:08, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Different Things
Hey, Wendy, I finally found that strange alternate cover I was telling you about:

And we've got a problem with "Favorite Songs" (the record). I know there's a talk page for it already, but I wanted to mention it to you, since we talked about it a while ago. I finally found a copy of the 2-record set on Silver Eagle on eBay. But the label says, "Made in Canada", just like the red and blue single versions. I'm starting to wonder if this was a Canada-only title, like the Big Bird and Oscar camping album. If it is, do we keep it in the main discography, or put it in an international section, even though it's in English? And just because I had to share it with somebody, what do you think of what they're doing on Sesame Street? I couldn't believe that today's show not only didn't have Elmo's World (for the first time since 1998!), but they're going back to spreading the street story throughout the show, and not puting it all together at the beginning. To me, it feels like they're going back to the more classic format. I wonder if the releases of Old School got people making suggestions to the Workshop. I guess we'll see what they do for the rest of the year. (And I like the new version of the theme, both musically and visually!) -- Ken (talk ) 05:55, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Aha. Just in time on that image (the auction's about to end).  I had checked all the new ones since you mentioned it.  It's a bit blurry but I'll see what I can do with it.


 * I guess one question on "Favorite Songs" becomes whether it was produced in both the US and Canada with the same cover art (I've seen that on stuff), or was it at least sold in the US commercially or not?


 * I think the dividing up is somewhat arbitrary. We have all the English (ie US + UK) Muppet albums into one discography and everything else goes into an "International" (which at that point is a fuzzy distinction, and has always bugged me immensely).  Mostly because there just aren't as many Muppet albums and everybody insisted the UK ones were readily available.  Can we make the same argument here?    It seems to me that the language (or possibly characters) are more of a division than where the album got produced.  It's probably best to start a community discussion on the matter and make it uniform for SS, Muppets, Fraggles, etc.


 * As for the new version of the show, I hadn't see it 'til today (my son only watches occasionally), and the street story was one big chunk and there was an Elmo's World. I always wished they'd stuck with having the street story interspersed to begin with; having it one big chunk made the whole thing feel unbalanced a lot of the time.  Still I liked today's show much better than some of the other ones I've seen recently; it seemed better integrated, and the story line of reading a favorite book over and over, or playing with a toy train is certainly more relevant to my child than eg. Donald Grump.  Not having Elmo's World every episode is fine by me; I like Elmo quite well in general but dislike Elmo's World on a lot of levels.  -- Wendy  (talk ) 15:35, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, to me the US and UK Muppet Show records belong together because the show was shot there, and technically, the DVD's are UK editions, since they have the uncut versions that we didn't get to see here during the original run. But as far as Sesame records made in Canada, I've seen a few notated as such on eBay and other sites, and I might buy one sometime just to see how they're different.  I don't know if they'll have different labels, numbers, or just a Made in Canada note, with everything else being the same.  But Favorite might just be a mail-order item that happened to be made in Canada just because it was cheaper.  I want to say that I saw records and CD's of this in stores, but I can't swear to it.  I guess we can put a note saying that these were all made in Canada, until we find a US version.


 * How old is your son? I've always heard that in the 90's, they made the decision to move the curriculum down from 5 years old to 2 years old, which would explain a lot of things they did.  Did you know that early on, they showed the same Elmo's World for a solid week?  That would have driven me crazy!  People keep saying that the people who don't like Elmo aren't 3 anymore, and they're remembering "their" Sesame Street, and that's why they still like it better than what's on now.  Well, I disagree, because I remember thinking Mr. Rogers was too slow and stupid when I was 5, and SS and Elec. Co., were cool, fast-paced and funny, and I still do.  Of course, now I can appreciate what Mr. Rogers was doing, and I'm glad they're still showing reruns.  But in my opinion, it seems that after Jim died, things went downhill.  Then we lost Jon Stone, Jerry Juhl, Jeff Moss, and Joe Raposo.  I can't believe that in the space of 7 years, everybody who was the heart and soul of Sesame Street died.  Then they went from 130 shows a year, to 65, to 50, to 26.  And when they gave Elmo half the show, and those get rerun even more frequently than the main show, it just feels like they've stopped trying.  I'm glad they want to keep it going, but I feel that it will never be the same.  Or I could be totally wrong.  I know parents who love what they're doing now.  I realize the show will always be evolving, but I wish that the Workshop wouldn't pretend the first 20 years never happened.  I still believe that bits from all eras could be worked in, but it seems like they don't want to.  Oh well, at least they're making more Old School, so I can watch it with my nephews! -- Ken  (talk ) 06:41, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * As far as I know SS was always aimed at the preschool (2-4 yr old) audience. There's stuff in the archives about how they wanted it aired specifically right after older children would leave for school and whatnot.  I think it is "older" than Mr. Rogers; I loved that show when I was very little but outgrew it before SS.  I don't know why they changed the format, but it might be simply to bring it more into synch with all the other stuff kids watch these days.
 * I'm not sure my son is a good yardstick for the new stuff because we don't watch tv at all regularly; for example he hasn't seen any all week. He's only 2, but he likes Old School skits and the new show about equally.  I think Elmo's a good character for street scenes and song inserts, and actually much less annoying than Big Bird was initially.  Perhaps one does have to be 3 though to like Elmo's World, because despite his love for Elmo my son does not particularly like it, and usually finds something else to do when it comes on.
 * I think some of the problem with much of the old stuff could be pacing; stuff is filmed more "quickly" now in general and I suspect SS is no exception. So the old stuff would stand out.  Plus there have been subtle changes to the sets and puppets etc., and the films/cartoons do look obviously dated.  Not that this is bad, just that it would stick out against the new stuff.  -- Wendy  (talk ) 01:40, 18 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I can understand that, although I think it's funny that people are saying that the "new" SS contributes to ADD, but people were saying that when it started, because of all the bits that were 30 seconds or a minute long! And really, Episode 1 seems to be really slow to me, like that film about cows that's 6:30, or the kids running around a construction site that's 4:30!  But they used to mix really old stuff in for years afterward.  I remember seeing shows (and they're listed here) where they'd have an Ernie and Bert skit with his orange and purple shirt (1st season), and then show one that was 2nd season, and then a really brand new one, all in the same show!  I think the only thing they retired after the first year was the orange Oscar and the dopey Big Bird, which is why they had to re-do I Love Trash.  And my brother and I noticed the differences in the different bits, but we thought it was cool, because we could tell that it was really old!  I've always grown up with multiple incarnations of things.  They used to show WB cartoons from all eras (the early Elmer Fudd is a completely different person), show Popeye cartoons where they'd mix up the black and white and color ones (which had different studios and voices), The Wonderful World of Disney used to show all kinds of cartoons from all eras of the characters' designs (like Mickey with black dots instead of "real" eyes), and of course they'd always run the Peanuts holiday specials, even while they made new ones every year.  So it's just my opinion that the people trying to have the show look the same, as far as not going back beyond a certain point, are cheating today's kids who will never get to see the mix of old and new that we did. -- Ken  (talk ) 02:07, 18 August 2007 (UTC)


 * That endless cow segment from Episode 1 is a legend in our house; it's so freakishly hypnotic! -- Wendy  (talk ) 02:16, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

SS Songbooks
Hey, Wendy, now that I'm kind of drifting into sheet music (mostly for having things like composer credits and copyright information), I keep forgetting if we ever talked about other early SS books. I know there are 2 that match the LIVE! album, with that weird cover. I know that I've seen one that says Sesame Street Vol. 1, and it says, "Recorded on Columbia Records", and I've seen a Vol. 2 that mentions Warner Brothers. But I've never been able to find out the contents, so I don't know if they're just highlights from the records, or if every song is on them. I'll have to keep looking! Anyway, here's a picture of Volume 1!:

Do you have any other songbook pictures on the wiki somewhere, or is what's in the sheet music section everything we have? Thanks! -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 04:27, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I think the sheet music section should be all we have; I haven't focussed especially on the songbooks because aside from the obvious ones it's a bit like the unofficial albums in terms of apparent chaos and a big hassle to both verify and type out the darned songlists. I'm grouchy because when I went back for that red songbook album on ebay it had been sold; it had a song listing too.  But the LIVE! book I own has everything except "Mr. Hooper's Poem", from that album at least, so I think it likely they had all the songs.   Or the easy-piano versions might not have now that I think about it, but the regular versions would.   I think worldcat had song listings for some of the sheetmusic; we can try there.  Meanwhile I'll grab the picture so we at least don't lose that.  -- <font color="Blue">Wendy  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 18:32, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

The First Alphabet!
Hey, Wendy, I finally found a picture of the first Muppet Alphabet Album cover! Here it is:  If you could please move them around, I'll fix the info boxes tomorrow! Thanks! -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 06:23, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * All done. -- <font color="Blue">Wendy  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 03:06, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you! That's been bugging me since I've been here! -- <font color="Blue">Ken  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 05:06, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

More pictures!
Hey, Wendy! I see you found the Sign 45! Here are some more pictures:

1) The 2-record set version of the 10th Anniversary album:

2) A 45 of 99047:

Also, can you move the pink cover of SS1 from my archive talk page to its page? I would do it, but I wasn't sure where to put all the pictures so they wouldn't run into the rest of the page, kind of like what happened on the Carry Abouts page. I was also wondering at what point we're going to have to turn that page into a gallery. We have 4 covers now, and I saw a 5th this morning. It has CS 1069's cover, but the sign just says, "The Sesame Street Record". I couldn't tell what the number was, but it must have been another budget reissue after CR 21530. Thanks for your help! I'm going to work on getting the 2 new boxed sets this weekend! -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 03:55, 11 August 2007 (UTC)


 * There they all are. Although that image of 99047 is pretty blurry and small, it's a start.  -- <font color="Blue">Wendy  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 19:06, 11 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks! I saw where you put "unknown" for the pink cover.  That's the first pressing of CTW 22064, followed by the outside group shot.  I'm not too familiar with galleries yet, so do you know where I can type something like "first pressing" and "second pressing" in the boxes?  Thanks! -- <font color="Blue">Ken  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 02:00, 12 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The gallery is a fairly freeform setup; you can put any text whatsoever in the second slot of each line. I just added the info as an extra line at the bottom.  You can move it if you want; you just use   to break up the lines.  -- <font color="Blue">Wendy  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 02:19, 12 August 2007 (UTC)


 * That looks fine! I was concerned that it would look unbalanced because the Columbia only has 2 lines, but now that we know there's another cover out there, we'll eventually have 3 lines on them, too!  And look at all the tapes and 8-tracks they made!  I think this wins for most releases ever! -- <font color="Blue">Ken  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 02:31, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

3 3-LP Sets!
Get ready to faint! I found an online record dealer who not only has Muppet Masquerade, and an 8-track of CS 1069, and a bunch of other SS stuff that I (or we) might need, but he also has what seems to be a THIRD 3-LP set, called Somebody Come and Play with Me on a Rainy Day, or something like that. At first I thought it was a joke or something, but I found another dealer with a picture of it. I'll try to give you a link to it. Anyway, right now I'm guessing that it's the David album (with a poncho on this one too!) and the Somebody Come and Play album, but I can't figure out the third one. I'm going to e-mail him, and see what everything will cost. I'll let you know what I find out! If I get Muppet Masquerade, and I don't need it, do you want it? Let me know, because I want it to go to somebody who either still has a working turntable, or likes to collect records just for the records themselves. Thanks! -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 04:15, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Hey Ken -- wow! I can't wait to see the info on the new set!  I'd never have thought they'd put the David album into a collection!


 * It will be good to know what's actually on the Muppet Masquerade set! Unfortunately I don't have a turntable, and I don't collect records (my piano and my books take up quite enough room!).  But thanks for offering!  -- <font color="Blue">Wendy  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 13:59, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Ken, I have a turntable ... ;) --MuppetVJ 14:13, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay, Guillermo, I might be talking to you when I start going through duplicates!


 * Wendy, here's the picture of the album: Thanks! -- <font color="Blue">Ken  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 06:39, 10 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok, it isn't great quality but it's up. Interesting that the album number skips to 182; the other two 3-LP sets were 160s.  Or is that a typo on the seller's part? -- <font color="Blue">Wendy  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 18:34, 10 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I saw that too. I won't know until I get them.  This whole thing is bugging me, because why in the world didn't they put these on the back cover lists?  They could have gone in the "Favorite LP Packages" section with the other uniquely numbered series.  I have only vague memories of boxed sets, and now I'm glad I wasn't dreaming about them! (Yes, I used to have dreams about going and buying records, and I still do sometimes!) -- <font color="Blue">Ken  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 03:04, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm Back!
Hey, Wendy! I didn't know if you saw my talk page last week. I left kind of a gag message, because I was on vacation back East, and I got to meet Danny in person for the first time, and we spent some time together, and we also hit the CTW archives! Of course, I was looking for anything music-related, and I did find some cool stuff! I actually saw the memos and discussions for doing the first 2 albums! We even saw the contract for it, signed by Matt Robinson, Will Lee, Bob McGrath, and Loretta Long! And they also had a whole bunch of stuff about what songs would be on it, and I even saw the typewritten script for all the dialogue parts! Also, apparently, the first Columbia album was only under a 1-album deal, and then they went to WB, but the second one lost money, and a lot of copies got returned (and probably destroyed, since it's very hard to find one in good condition). It also lost money, because, if you've seen it, it's very elaborate, even more so than the first one. It wound up costing a dollar more than the first one, and then nobody bought it. That part I can't understand, because the first one was a smash hit. And I can't figure out why the second one didn't do at least as well. Maybe the higher price was the reason, but back then, there wasn't anything else to buy, well, except for the knockoffs. Oh, well.

Anyway, the thing I wanted to mention to you is that we also found a 1976 sales brochure, with titles, prices, pictures, and numbers for records, cassettes and 8-tracks! If you've always wondered why you can never find cases for tapes, or boxes for the 8-tracks, that's because they packaged the tapes on a cardboard backing, and the 8-tracks had the backing, and also a cardboard picture on the front. That's why none of those have survived. Also, I finally cracked their numbering system! Where a tape is C 5051, the 8-track is T 5051! So I'm going to add those tonight!

Anything else exciting happen on the record front? I haven't gone through everything that's happened since I was here last, not yet anyway. I've been gone for 9 days, and while it was great to travel and have fun, it's sure nice to be home! -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 01:37, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Hey Ken -- I did see and I was about to leave you a message saying welcome back! I'm glad you had a good trip and found all that info in the archives.  That's absolutely wild about losing money on the second album.  Maybe it sold less because with the cartoon cover it stands out less obviously as "official" from the knockoffs than the first one did?  It's even more strange that they still made it into a box set!


 * I had found this which suggested cardboard packaging for 8-tracks; there is clearly no easy way to open the thing and keep the cardboard, or any reason to for that matter. It's not CTW, but when I saw it I guessed something similar might be up with the other brands.  It's interesting that the tapes were that way too though!


 * Anyhow, it's been a sadly slow front for finding stuff while you were away. I grabbed the cover of Columbia's "ABCD", a couple of tapes and some of the book& record sets, but not much else.  Thus blow the winds of luck on ebay! -- <font color="Blue">Wendy  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 03:09, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, that's actually the normal generic box that the tape slides into, which is what we can never find on SS stuff. From what I could tell from the (small black and white) pictures, the cassettes have a cardboard card behind the tape, with a picture of the album cover, but I can't tell if they're shrinkwrapped onto it, or if there is a plastic covering that you have to cut through to get the tape out.  The 8-tracks have something similar, but there's also a cardboard album cover picture attached to the front.  I hope we can find color pictures someday of some examples, but right now I'm just glad that we have 12 new 8-track numbers! -- <font color="Blue">Ken  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 14:04, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Songwriting Credits
Hey, Wendy! I decided to sit down and and start double-checking songwriting credits, one album at a time, and also corroborating against sheet music where possible. Well, I've already found some disagreements with my Columbia SS B&R, and the 1971 song book. What do you think we should do in such cases? Should we go with ASCAP and BMI, which sometimes have mistakes, too? Or maybe compare them against later album releases of the songs in question? Seeing as how Joe and Jeff are dead, and not having access to their manuscripts, I don't know what to do on some of the songs in question. What do you think? It's getting late, so maybe tomorrow I'll make a list of the discrepancies. -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 04:25, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi Ken. It's a thorny question, especially since outside of Raposo and Moss most of the old songs aren't in ASCAP/BMI at all any more (Geiss/Pottle titles especially).  I've never found author errors in those databases; it's usually a question of titles.  Which isn't to say that there aren't author errors of course.  And we know that there are errors on the albums themselves sometimes, so that's not foolproof either.
 * For the old songs we have one more resource; Danny found a 1978 CTW songlist that I have scans of, so if you tell me which songs are contradictory I can check them. However that document also has errors that we know about... like listing Axelrod instead of Axlerod.
 * I think it's probably going to have to be a case by case basis. I'd say if ten albums the song appears on say it's Jeff Moss, then I'd go with that; if it's just one discrepant album I'd be more sceptical. I also tend to trust sheet music for whatever reason.  But beyond that my own instinct is to go with the databases.
 * Actually this should really be brought up on current events. With specific examples of the discrepancies.  Danny and Scott and possibly Andrew also have issues with BMI/ASCAP accuracy.  -- <font color="Blue">Wendy  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 01:33, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, before I do that, I'm going to buy some other Sesame/Muppet sheet music. I was surprised at what's still in print!  I'll be working on a detailed list in the near future.  Thanks! -- <font color="Blue">Ken  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 05:45, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I'd Like to Know You Better
Hi -- I found a new song on Episode 0945. Have you heard of it? -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 20:39, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * There you be. I don't know anything about the song itself (for whatever reason I can't remember Luis at all on the show when I was a kid, let alone any songs he sang), but it was on the CTW Archive songlist you sent me awhile back.  It's not in ASCAP or on TinyDancer's site.  Maybe somebody else will remember the actual song; perhaps Guillermo?  -- <font color="Blue">Wendy  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 00:58, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Sweet, that's awesome. Thanks! -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 17:32, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

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