User:Merrystar/Talk Archive 04

Archive of Wendy's talk page.

Mad Goat Song
Yay, thanks for finding the "Mad Goat Song"! I love that song. -- Danny (talk ) 13:57, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I love that one too! -- Wendy  (talk ) 14:02, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

?????????????????????
-- Ken (talk ) 06:35, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh Cool! That must have shown up after I went to bed.  An album set we're missing! I'll try to dig up some more info on it today.  A quick web search found a couple of maskless copies in various places so that's a good sign, but nobody said what the 3 LPs were, which suggests it's not simply a repackage.  Also the number is CTW 161 (from worldcat).  -- Wendy  (talk ) 14:05, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, I couldn't find any track listings for it, although there are several auctions for mask-less copies, most of which also appear to be sans cover.  And some user on MuppetCentral forum who claimed to own it, who, if s/he is still around, might be induced to trot out a songlist, although I didn't recognize the user name.  I made a stub-ish page here to get us started.   There were a bunch of listings on worldcat but most wouldn't pull the listing when I clicked through to the libraries which made me grouchy because they frequently do list the songs in the full listing...
 * I'm quite short, so I guess I'm the Gonk. Barring any sudden surprises on ebay I'm also going to bed.  -- Wendy  (talk ) 03:10, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh for pete's sake. That album was under "toys" and had been there for days.  That was a great catch -- I don't usually go looking for records outside the music category... silly people who can't categorize!  -- Wendy  (talk ) 03:18, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's why I search under certain words and leave all categories open. Even though to me, records aren't toys, you have to think like other people.  Try looking under "Mupet" or "Dinseyland" sometime!
 * Well, working with you has been like walking through this endlessly unfolding maze, and I never know where we're going next! (Kind of like Labyrinth!)  I only found this listing because I was trying to find more loose 45's from Havin' Fun, and after what I'd just been through, with having to rewrite my notes because we now know that the 45's came in 2 series, I was searching under "Ernie Bert 45", and I don't know why that album came up, but it was like Heart Attack #2 last night!  At least we now have a title and number (and a picture), and proof that there was a 160 series!  I was going to bid on it, but I want to find out what's on it first.  Maybe I'll write to that library that has one, or maybe a library out here would interlibrary loan it if I paid for it.  Some of them do that.
 * Back to Havin' Fun with Ernie and Bert's Alternate Pressings, I was also typing in nearby numbers, and combining that with what we already know. I've now found 3 45's with 3 songs each.  I'm starting to think that this set came with 5 45's with 3 songs each.  I'm going to add them to the "real" singles chart, until we can finish the entire rundown, and then pull them to the Carry-Abouts page.  Oh, and a bonus that came out of the blue:  One of the places where I found a number was a posting on Muppet Central, and this person also had the 1984 Christmas 45 that I was telling you about!  It turns out that my reference book was right, so I'm going to add that too! -- Ken  (talk ) 06:03, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

You've Found My Record At Last!
Hey, Wendy, I didn't know you found a picture for My Record! I ran across it by accident! I just put up a note on Current Events, because we now have the complete run of albums on the label! Now we just need to finish the CTW series of singles! Thanks so much! -- Ken (talk ) 23:17, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You're welcome! I wondered if you had seen it... I was so pleased to finally fill in that empty spot and see what it looked like!  -- <font color="Blue">Wendy  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 00:47, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for making the gallery on Country, and for finding the E&B 45's! Working with you always reminds me of The Geefle and The Gonk! -- <font color="Blue">Ken  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 04:36, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Stick Out Your Hand and Say the Year
Hey, Wendy! Did you happen to see a year on Stick Out Your Hand and Say Hello? I've always wanted to know if Frank Oz did that before or after Jim Henson died. I'm hoping it's before, since Frank directed Rick Moranis in Little Shop of Horrors in 1986. And it's sad to see Bert going somewhere without Ernie! -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 03:58, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well the Ernie and Bert Songs page gives it tentatively for Season 22 which would put it right on the border; you'd have to get a filming, or at least recording date for the sketch to really know and we don't generally have that info (although I suppose it could be buried in the archives somewhere). I didn't run into any copyrights (sadly ascap doesn't give years); so the only hope would be a copyright on the "Let's Be Friends (soundtrack)", which I'm not sure anybody owns, but even that only says when it was written, not when Frank Oz filmed it.  -- <font color="Blue">Wendy  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 13:23, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks!
I moved our conversation up here, since it was getting buried way down there. Thank you so much for your work with the pictures and stuff! That's exactly how I've been envisioning it. I fixed a couple of areas regarding the past/present tense like we were talking with Danny the other day. I just hope one of us finds the Havin' Fun box. For some reason, finding that album in any format seems to be extremely hard. Although I have most of the songs on other albums, I haven't heard it all the way through in years, and I have no idea why I never got it years ago. My mom and dad got me every other Ernie and Bert album, and that one was the first one! -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 05:40, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Good Morning
Hey, Wendy, I have the record (no book) of Early Bird, and the song is called "Good Morning", and Bob and Marylou sing it. Guillermo confirmed that it's not "Good Morning Morning" (since it's also on the What Time Is It album), but I haven't fixed it yet because there's another song called "Good Morning" from Bear in the Big Blue House. Do you know what to do when you have 2 different songs with the same title? If you can fix that, I can write up what the song's about, since I have it. Thanks! -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 06:33, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * How utterly odd -- ASCAP has an entry for a Jeff Moss song called "Good Morning Morning", but none for just "Good Morning" under him. I wonder what Good Morning MOrning actually is.  Anyhow, I moved it around; the differentiation is either series or author; I'm inclined towards series in this case but we'll see if anybody changes it further.   -- <font color="Blue">Wendy  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 18:25, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Carry Abouts
Hey, Wendy, thanks for putting the alphabet 45 on the Carry Abouts page and replacing it with the cover. We only need 2 more!

So what do you think about having some kind of page or article for the Carry Abouts? I think they are kind of special, because the idea of a box set of 45's that duplicated an LP was an idea that was big between 1949 and about 1955. Back then, you could buy a book of 78's, or a box of 45's, of the same LP. Then they quit making 78's in 1958, and around that time, the 45 box idea evolved into selling 3 separate EP's (with 4 songs each) for an album (which usually had 12 songs back then). Anyway, for the kid market to bring that idea back again in the late '60's and early '70's, I find fascinating. Columbia did a whole bunch of these, and not very many other companies did, which is all the more reason why I found the Warner one to be even more fascinating, because I think it's not only the only kid box they ever did, but I think it's the only 45 box they ever did at all!

Anyway, I think the fact that these had unique artwork and custom labels, and in some cases tracks that you couldn't get on the LP, like Hello, and the long version of People in Your Neighborhood, would make for an interesting page. I know we make a mention of them on the LP's page, with the number (I put those up), but I'd love to do more with them. But I think the guys might think it's overkill. What do you think? -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 06:14, 13 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Well I think you just made a pretty persuasive argument for why they need a page on them. Particularly for the Warner one, which is clearly inspired by SS and not just the children's market.  That's notable in its own way.  I'd say add to the sandbox page with some of the text you just wrote about the history of box sets and how SS is related to it all, and then put up a talkbox and see what other people think. I think it's worth having on its own page; the singles list is so long that I can't imagine adding more discussion there at this point so it's not like there's an obvious way to include it elsewhere.  -- <font color="Blue">Wendy  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 18:44, 13 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, see, here's what I was thinking. If we get to make this a real page, I want to pull out the Warner set entirely from the singles listing.  Everything else on the page are things that were sold individually.  I just put it there because I was new, and I didn't want to fight about making a Carry About page until I got to know some people.  Besides, it was never sold as separate 45's, and on top of that, the 45's are in reverse pairs (Side 1 is backed with Side 8, etc.)  So I've always felt that everything on the singles page should be stuff that people bought separately.  What really made me think hard about this was when Kyle told me that he had the Alphabet set, but that it didn't come with the books that you got when you bought them individually.  The funny thing is that the box for SS1 does.  On SS1, it's like they took each of the first 6, and stuck them in a box.  I guess it got to be too expensive, because Alphabet doesn't have them, and I've never seen Ernie and Bert (yet!).  Anyway, since Kyle has Alphabet and the bag of 3, and I've got SS1 and SS2, I think we could make it a neat page by having a bunch of pictures.  I'd like to showcase all of the custom labels, since they're all different, especially the Alphabet one.  SS1 has the same design, with a bunch of different colors.  SS2 has Ernie and Bert holding up the WB shield and SS sign, with a big number on the label.  (I see that you put up one of them.  Where did you find that one?)


 * Anyway, this will probably take a while, since I have to ask Kyle to scan all of the B-sides, and it's going to take me some time to be able to scan stuff on my own. So I'll be working on it off and on.  Thanks for your support! -- <font color="Blue">Ken  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 03:55, 14 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I found the SS2 label here; they've got three of them for sale. Unfortunately the way the picture is done I didn't think I could crop out the other two.  But if you own them then that's fantastic because we'll have nice scans eventually!


 * I think the carry-abouts are important on their own; they are what a lot of kids had and they were sold in a different format from singles. I'll keep an eye out for anything more I can get off of ebay (or wherever) but usually a direct scan is better quality! -- <font color="Blue">Wendy  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 00:51, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I'm hoping that pretty soon I can get one of my friends to help me who can scan and upload stuff that I want to put up here. Boy, I wish that person had spread the singles out more!  But oh, well, they're coming!


 * Last night I dumped all of the single pictures that I could think of so far onto the page, but they're all over the place. If you're interested, can you figure out how to arrange them so they'll look nice, and be near the text?  I tried to make info boxes, so all the data is there.  If you're confused, let me know.  Thanks! -- <font color="Blue">Ken  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 02:29, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Is that better? You mostly just needed a lot more text or anything to keep the sections clear of each other vertically.  Putting the images into a gallery accomplishes that neatly.  I also added a bit of text to help out.  Once all the images are available for all the sets we should be able to do something more uniform.  If nothing else we can add songlists which will give us a lot of vertical space, and possibly room for at least one image per section in addition to the box.  -- <font color="Blue">Wendy  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 03:23, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Various stuff
Hey, Wendy! My page was getting kind of crowded with pictures and multiple conversations, so I came over here. I can't believe how much we've written lately! Anyway, a few random thoughts:

1) Actually, the Songs from Sesame Street LP has Mahna Mahna. I forgot about that one, and I think it was the only one from that era.  I also forgot that I have the real one on the Jim Henson memorial CD, and Platinum Too.

2) I keep forgetting to tell you that I saw a music book on eBay for Sesame Street 2, and the funny thing is that it had that same weird cover that's on your copy of LIVE! It even said, "Recorded on Warner Brothers Records"!  So I guess there may have been more, and they all matched.

3)I don't know if you've had any luck finding SS book and record/tape sets this way, but I've been typing stuff like "Sesame book and record", and I'll get people who are selling groups of different book and record sets from different companies. And today I found a few who had pictures of stuff we need!  I'll have to see if I can find them again.  The only thing is some of them are pictures of 4 covers at a time.  So I didn't know if you were able to cut out a 1/4 of a picture and blow it up to what we need.  What I saw was the IJKL 45 cover!  I'll look for it.  I also saw some various editions of SS audio sets, and you might need the info and/or pictures. -- <font color="Blue">Ken  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 02:28, 12 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Hey Ken - yeah, I sort of filled up your page a lot today. I saw a music book for "Sesame Street Songbook Vol. 1" with that same funky cover (only in red, which is actually scary as well as funky) but while pondering how exactly to title it on the wiki, since we have a lot of "songbooks" and trying to figure out which album it corresponded to, I got pulled away from the computer and lost the page.  I should go look it up again.  I can also look for the IJKL; I have a hazy memory of seeing that recently and thinking it was too small/fuzzy to salvage but I can look again.


 * Sometimes I can pull images from group sets (and have) and sometimes it doesn't work so well. It really depends on the quality/size of the image to begin with, and whether it's going into a table or gallery, or we need it full size. I have a couple of book-and-record group images of sitting around that I need to play with when I get a chance.  I think I searched book and record at some point, but since I could care less if I have both parts I've just been searching the titles in all categories and seeing what came up.   Or well, I figured starting with the original 24 would keep me busy for awhile that way (it did).  -- <font color="Blue">Wendy  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 02:51, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Another 12" single?
I just wrote you a long reply about Fisher-Price records, and I forgot to ask you something else. Where did you find the new red 12" for C is for Cookie? Is that the same as the promo, or is it another song?  I can't read the label, and the sleeve is kind of vague, like there could have been more than one 12" released from this album. I'm hoping, anyway! -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 03:09, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The seller said it was "C is for Cookie" with the two mixes one on each side. The times he gave were ballpark correct (I didn't really check, but they were about how I remembered it).  I doublechecked that when I grabbed it because I thought it must be some other songs too.  I'm not sure why the label is a different color.  I was just so startled to see an actual sleeve for it!  -- <font color="Blue">Wendy  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 19:00, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Here is the listing. -- <font color="Blue">Wendy  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 02:24, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Double song pages
Hi Wendy -- There's a couple of double song pages, and I figure you can clear up which is the right title.

One song is listed as "Honk, Bang, Whistle, Crash" on the Cheep Thrills tape, and "Honk, Bang, Whistle and Crash" on Oscar's Trashy Songs.

The other is "The Boogie-Woogie Piggies" on Silly Songs, and "The Boogie Woogie Piggies" on Cheep Thrills.

I figure you're the person best qualified to figure out which is the correct title... :) -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 18:30, 7 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Hey Danny -- those two are both pretty unclear. The Jeff Moss one (Honk) is not in ASCAP that I can find which is just odd; most of his stuff, especially stuff that has been re-released in the 90s is in there; I've done tons of variants and I just can't seem to find it.  However the comma'd title only had two late compilations using it, while "Honk, Bang, Whistle and Crash" had a bunch of 80s albums pointing to it.  To me this seemed more reliable and that's what I went with.
 * As for Boogie-Woogie vs. Boogie Woogie, your guess is as good as mine. It's in ASCAP without the hyphen, but I can't recall any entry in ASCAP that includes a hyphen, and a spot check of a few of the titles here doesn't pull up any.  ASCAP is very vague when it comes to punctuation.  The dictionary seems to think "Boogie-Woogie" should have a hyphen, as does every reference on the wiki here except for "Cheep Thrills".  Which says nothing at all about what Tony Geiss thought when he wrote it.  Still,  I'd say it's more likely that the latter album had a typo and the hyphen is correct.  -- <font color="Blue">Wendy  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 01:06, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Solo composer credits
Hey, Wendy! Since you and I seem to be really involved in music on here, I wanted to ask you something. I'm going to start attacking composer credits on the LP pages. How do you think we should credit a solo composer underneath a song on the album page? Should it be, "Written by Jeff Moss", "by Jeff Moss", or "Music and Lyrics by Jeff Moss"? As usual, I'm seeing it every which way, and I don't know if this has been discussed before. Thanks!

P.S. I wrote up a summary of Giveaway Gibson. After you read it, I need to ask you something about that, too. Thanks! -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk )


 * Offhand I think I'd vote for "Written by Jeff Moss", as it matches how we do the song templates.  I've never liked the shorter "By Jeff Moss".  I'm open to debate on the merits of saying "Music and Lyrics by Jeff Moss".


 * Good summary. What's your question?  -- <font color="Blue">Wendy  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 01:08, 8 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I guess I was thinking that having a Music and Lyrics credit no matter who wrote it would be more consistent than Written by, which could almost sound like a sketch, and not a song. But you're right, if they match the template, it would be Written by.  I'm going to start fine-tuning the records that I own, at least on the ones that have those details on them.  It'll take longer to do the ones where they just have it as (Last name/Last name), since I'll have to check ASCAP and BMI.


 * Okay, about Giveaway Gibson, there seem to be two different people named Alphabet Bates. The pilot skywriter guy came first, since he was in Season 1.  The one in this book is a very strange character.  I don't know if you can see the cover very well, but he's running around with letters all over him, where his clothes should be!  It's sure funny how you don't think of things when you're a kid, and then 35 years later, you're going, "Oh, my gosh!  They wouldn't let them do that today!"  Anyway, I don't know how you wanted to handle having two characters with the same name, especially since this guy seems to be a one-shot character (unless we find him somewhere else), and that your note about Alphabet Bates making a rare appearance isn't exactly right, since it's a different guy than the pilot guy.  Let me know what you think.  Thanks! -- <font color="Blue">Ken  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 02:37, 8 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmmm. I forgot about the sketches.  So "Music and Lyrics by" might indeed be much clearer in that case. I'm always irritated by the redlinked sketches anyhow because I keep thinking I should be able to find them as a song and then I see "Jerry Juhl" or whoever and realize my error.... So anything that helped make it obivous it was a sketch would be good.


 * I adjusted Giveaway Gibson a little.... is it better? I'm disinclined to expand out the characters from those books as Sesame characters for the same reasons I was dubious about calling them Sesame books to begin with, but if we decide we want to, then it'll just be a disambig. I agree that a man wearing letters seems to have little connect to a skywriter. Although that's not to say that Matt Robinson pictured him that way -- just the artist.  Let's see who shows up in some of the other books; if there are more name overlaps I'll be more inclined to think it's deliberate on Matt Robinson's part and the artist just got a bit carried away in this case (and/or had never seen the SS alphabet bates!).  -- <font color="Blue">Wendy  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 03:05, 8 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, his page has a picture from another book, and it looks totally different, and the other one is a pilot. This guy is more cartoony and outlandish.


 * So is that a good idea for the solo credits, or should we ask other people? -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 03:19, 8 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I think the only other people likely to care would be Scott or Danny. I'd say do up an album the way you want it to look and then put a talkbox on to ask if anybody has tweaks/issues with the formatting before you do the rest. That should cover your bases.  -- <font color="Blue">Wendy  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 22:23, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

The Pecan Tree
Hey, Wendy! I saw The book for The Pecan Tree on eBay today, so you can see what the covers for the book and record editions look like. This one's yellow, and my Giveaway Gibson is blue. Also, I saw the talk page for A Lot of Hot Water, and I was going to add something, but I guess Scott was okay with adding them. I just wanted to say that the record starts with Matt saying, "Hi, this is Gordon. I'm gonna read you a story called (title)." And then he goes through, "When you hear this sound, turn the page", and when to turn the record over. Incidentally, I forgot to tell you that our very own Muppet VJ won the Giveaway Gibson 45. I could tell because the winnner was sawing14s, which is the name he uses on YouTube. So maybe he could get you a better picture.

Oh yeah, also, Amazon has some used hardcovers of these! I was tempted to buy one, just to see what they were like. (Nobody had pictures.) I'm curious how big they are. My book is a paperback that's about 9" X 7 1/4". -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 03:33, 6 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh Cool! I just found the Pecan one in worldcat and hadn't searched it on ebay yet. I just grabbed the pictures so I have them.   I'll probably leave the discussion open for a smidge longer in case anyone else cares and then put up pages for all four books.  It looks like, by the way, that the book only version in LoC has the same ISBN as the one you took from your book&record set for Giveaway Gibson.    I wonder if Guillermo also bought the other two 45rpms I saw on ebay; it would be nice if somebody could find the stories and see if there were any other SS character mentions...  they do still exist in a few libraries as well, although none within a hundred miles of me!  -- <font color="Blue">Wendy  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 04:02, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

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