Talk:Main Page

Redesign
I happened to be passing and I was a little underwhelmed by the design of the main page. I strongly feel that its current layout doesn't do a wiki of this size and prominence justice. Therefore I made a few changes, incorporating design elements from the Wikipedia main page redesign and Uncyclopedia's version. I tried to avoid changing any meaning, only the styling and (in a few cases, to shorten lines) the words.

I believe that the advantages of the redesigned version are:


 * It highlights the important initial message.
 * The altered wording allows browsers (IE and Firefox) to display the header with each line on one line - no wrapping - on 1024 pixel wide screens when the window is maximised, unlike the existing design
 * It is shorter, both because of the above and due to reduction in header height. This allows people without huge screens to see almost all of the content at once. the front page at once. Currently the categories links are all offscreen on 1024x786.
 * It lets people more easily edit the Today and Category sections by clicking the edit links without worrying about messing up the style
 * This also allows the main page itself to be protected while these sections remain editable
 * It looks nicer!

Undoubtedly, my design could be improved. I think it is something that could be worked from, though. And yes, I could have asked first, but I decided to be bold and make it happen first so that you could see what I had in mind. :-)

If I were able to, I would probably have put a transparent, half-opaque version of the "Kermit poking head out of a hole" image into the background of the Category section as well to replace the existing one, aligned to the bottom right. I am not able to do so, probably because MediaWiki prevents background-image in pages. I believe it requires assigning a class to the table or a div and incorporating that background image as part of that. It is a minor thing, though.

I think that overall the redesign makes for a far better front page, and it (or a similar design) should be adopted. But I'm just a crazy foreigner - what do you think? -- 22:47, 11 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I moved Laurence's version to Main Page redesign suggestion, to make it easier for people to look at it... -- Danny Toughpigs 23:04, 11 March 2006 (UTC)


 * So here's my initial thoughts on it. I like the way it highlights the top part, puts a box around it and sets it in a bit. That's very nice. I like the boxes with "Today on Muppet Wiki" and "Categories", those are very classy looking.
 * One thing I really don't like is how cramped it looks. I think wikis in general (including Wikipedia and WikiFur) place too much value on putting as much content as possible on the screen. WikiFur's main page is definitely more polished-looking than ours -- two columns, nice colors, a bunch of pictures. In my opinion, it's also kind of a mess. There's so much that's competing to catch your eye, it's hard to know what to focus on.
 * So we've been working on this wiki to use more white space, to give people's eyes a break and help them to focus on the important bits. We messed with the style sheet a little to put extra space between headings. So that's an aspect of the redesign that doesn't appeal to me at all, and I don't think it's worth it to cram everything together in order to get it to fit on one screen.
 * The green also doesn't do a lot for me as a background for the text. As an accent for the headings, it looks very nice, but having it everywhere makes too pastel for me.
 * Anybody else got some thoughts? -- Danny Toughpigs 23:20, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
 * My two cents for what it's worth. I like the splash of color, but I too think it's a bit cramped.  --Nate  Radionate 05:20, 12 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I've had a go at addressing the above. The background tint is now much lighter - I think it looks better than plain white, but it could probably be dispensed with entirely if it's a problem. I have increased the cell spacing in the table so that the sections are a little less cramped. If it needs more, just increase that value. I've also condensed the intro text into the essential message: "We're making a database about the muppets, and you can help - go here for more information." (two lines worked better in the end, but it could be one). That change helps make it look less cramped because there is less - in terms of word count, anyway. Each line is two lines on 1024x786, and only one line on 1280x1024.


 * WikiFur and Wikipedia's layouts reflect their users, who always seem to want more information at their fingertips. I agree that the Muppet Wiki should have different priorities to match what is probably a different userbase. Two columns of content would definitely be a mistake here. It is a shame that Wikicities has to put ads on the front page and cramp the style, but the front pages do get the most hits . . . Laurence -- 21:41, 12 March 2006 (UTC)


 * One of the problems with your proposed redesign is that it's built around the dimensions of the picture that we have up on the front page right now. We actually change that picture at the beginning of every month, for some visual variety. I put in the picture from a couple months ago into the Main Page redesign suggestion 2, and it doesn't really work.


 * I totally agree with you that the page could use some jazzing up, but I think a redesign would work better if we could do it in pieces. Putting everything into one big table makes everything interdependent, and it makes it much harder to change later. I personally can't make heads or tails out of the code you put in, which means that in six months, if we wanted to change something, and you weren't around, we'd have to scrap the whole thing and start over.


 * One thing I really like about your suggested redesign is the border around the top section -- I think that makes it stand out really well. Is it possible to have that boxed out, without making everything else into a table? -- Danny Toughpigs 21:44, 12 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Scott, do we really have to cut the first line up like that for smaller screens? It looks terrible. I think a screen can handle more than four words in 14 point type. We're not designing for cell phones. -- Danny Toughpigs 22:01, 12 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, I thought we were making it look better for small screens. Should we put popular pages in the sidebar? Actually, all those links at the top can go, they're all right on the front page. We don't need em taking up real estate. -- Scott Scarecroe 22:03, 12 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, I couldn't care less about people with small screens. I just took Popular pages out because it doesn't actually work. I thought it did, but the numbers never change.


 * I think the links at the top are useful, because that's the place a new reader is going to look when they first come to the page. There's nine things in the navigation bar, and anyway, that's off to the side, and it's in small type. I think it's useful for new readers to come to the page and see right away that there's a place for them to start -- They can see what's new, they can read the talk pages, they can check out the FAQ. -- Danny Toughpigs 22:06, 12 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, it depnds what you call "small". Here are the stats from WikiFur:
 * 1024x768 - 49.49%
 * 1280x1024 - 19.57%
 * 800x600 - 8.90%
 * 1152x864 - 5.25%
 * Creatures Wiki, which is proabably closer to the audience of this wiki, actually has higher levels of 1024 users. 800x600 is perhaps not worth the effort, but I think we should care about how it looks for resolution used by the majority of users.


 * As for popular pages, I used to think that was a good idea, but then I realised it just made the popular pages even popular. Long pages might work, as it does bring up several of the best pages, but only if you moved the talk archives out into the non-main namespace (perhaps put them as subpages of the user's talk pages instead, like I do on furry - see archive links to right). I put the link to recent changes as the link to "currently editing" in the proposed redesign, which would free up a slot for long pages. Laurence -- 22:46, 12 March 2006 (UTC)


 * The previous design had that issue as well - only worse, because the original text was wider so it almost always scrolled to two lines. You can size images in MediaWiki . . . as long as you specify that the image be 233px wide (or less), it will work fine. :-)


 * It is true that having things in a table reduces flexibility somewhat, but as far as I can tell that is essentially how you had it previously - a single column on the left, and a picture on the right. The space to the bottom of the picture doesn't actually seem to be used in any case because none of the categories are long enough to poke into it. I am not sure that just using divs (or neither tables nor divs) will gain much.


 * I think it should be possible to make a boxed-out version of the original without the table. I will also add comments to the tabled version so you can more understand what it is doing. For a guide to the table syntax, see Meta's table help - it's a lot simpler once you know what the symbols mean! If you have Firefox you can also use the DOM Inspector on the tools menu to have a look at the layout (if you installed it with developer tools). Laurence 22:33, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Protection
I like the idea of this wiki, however, I suggest immediate protection of the main page because it will be the most direct source of vandalism. --24.5.250.36 00:35, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, if somebody's going to vandalise the wiki, we want them to do it on the main page. It's the easiest place to spot it. It's like a kid spray-painting graffiti in the principal's office in the middle of the day. You don't need to take any special precautions to catch the dumbest vandals in town. -- Danny Toughpigs 01:40, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Questions
--Trogga 21:58, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
 * How did this wiki start?
 * Are we going to transcribe TV shows, movies, commercials etc., like the Homestar Runner Wiki?
 * I dunno, it just happened. :) I'm the founder of ToughPigs.com, and I thought it would be cool to start a Muppet wiki. Scott and Peter helped me set it up, and the three of us are the admins. We started it on December 5th. Does any of this answer your question?
 * Transcribing stuff is a possibility, sure. If you've got the energy to do it, then go for it! -- Danny Toughpigs 17:53, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

The Picture
Small question. The picture on the front page, is this decided upon as what should stay there? Becuase Miss Piggy is not wearing her gloves, and that has a tendency to freak some people out a bit. That's all i wanted to say Mat B Regard 23:41, 14 Dec 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, it's a vintage picture -- it was actually the very first Muppet Show poster, back in 1977. I have a particular fondness for it, because I was six years old then, and I got the poster that summer, during the endless gap between the first season and the second season. (They didn't even run re-runs all summer, it was a total Muppet Show blackout! I almost died!) So I got that poster, and I put it up on my bedroom door, and it stayed there all the way up into high school. I love that picture. Yeah, Piggy, Fozzie and Gonzo are all their weird first-season versions, but look how gorgeous Animal is, and check out how Dr. Teeth's arms stretch all the way from Fozzie's shoulder to just behind Animal. You don't see that every day. So if there are people who are so sensitive that they can't bear seeing Piggy without her gloves, then I think they'll be able to deal. -- Toughpigs 23:54, 14 Dec 2005 (UTC)


 * Ok, no problem. It is, I agree, a very cool (and rare) picture and deserves some glory! Mat B Regard 09:12, 15 Dec 2005 (UTC)