User:Toughpigs/Talk Archive 27

Archive of User talk:Toughpigs.

Song discussions
Boy, you guys were busy tonight! I wanted to mention that Talk:Give a Little Love and Talk:Down on the Corner were talking about the same thing, and I didn't know how you felt about it. -- Ken (talk ) 07:10, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Replacing images
Heya. When you upload a new version of a picture, can you upload it over the existing one? It makes it easier to maintain clean-up. Thanks! —Scott ( talk ) 06:09, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Sure, no problem. -- Danny (talk ) 06:47, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

International video
Just so you know, Die Dinos Hörspiele refers to audio cassette tapes ("Hörspiele" is German for "radio play," and Wendy had renamed it awhile back to use the German phrase; we have a page for similar Muppet Babies tapes). As for VHS or DVD releases, I've generally been using covers on the dub pages, but there are none for Die Dinos, any for the movies are or can be mentioned on the pages, and it's up to you if you want individual pages for each country's multi-volume Farscape releases. So, do you want to keep Category:International Creature Shop Video or not? -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 05:50, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * D'oh! Sorry, I didn't know... well... any of that, actually. I just saw an international thing in Dinosaurs Merchandise and wanted to give it someplace to live. You can delete the category I created, and do whatever you like with that page. -- Danny (talk ) 05:52, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I'd originally created "International Dinosaurs Shows" rather than just International Dinosaurs, since there's a fair bit of international Dino merchandise, but the category got renamed, and we can always fix it when there's more than one item with a page. -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 05:55, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Japanese Muppet Wiki
Hey, Danny! I saw that there's a new Muppet Wiki in Japanese. Is there a way to translate their site? -- Ken (talk ) 17:59, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


 * http://babelfish.yahoo.com/ will do it. —Scott ( talk ) 18:14, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


 * It's just started, so right now it's only got the Japanese starter page up... but it would be very cool if they could get that rolling. -- Danny (talk ) 18:40, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

About a boy
Thanks for fixing that! I got the record, and it's "Boy" on the label. Plus, now we know that it was written by Carol Hall and Sam Pottle. Hope you're enjoying your weekend! -- Ken (talk ) 20:16, 30 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Cool, it's good to have more info! I hope you're having a good weekend too. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 20:16, 30 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, my new project is attacking the Dutch and German records, trying to assemble a complete listing of what was made, and standardizing how they're presented on the wiki. Thank God for Worldcat, international eBay sites, and Babelfish! -- <font color="Blue">Ken  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 20:21, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

DVD relevance
Hey, a question on some of the stuff the Henson Company is putting out on DVD. I glanced at Template:Upcoming and noticed Brad had added a date and a redlink for The Blue Elephant, coming to DVD next week. The thing is, some checking (and even the Henson Company presskit, though buried, admits it) shows that it's not a new film but a 2006 CG film from Thailand called Khan Kluay. It's being released under "Jim Henson Company: Discoveries," an "acquisition banner" used for "third party produced titles that reflect the Company’s long-standing tradition of creative excellence" (read: we got the rights cheap). Apparently Henson oversaw the English dub, which features Carl Reiner and Martin Short. Unstable Fables is already a bit on the line (pre-production by Henson, animation done in India), but since we've talked about what's relevant to the Wiki's goals (and so far, this sounds far more tangential than the Dutch voices for 5 Children and It), what do you think? Should it get a page? (My own feeling, if we're going to cover these things, would be to park basic info on a "Jim Henson Company: Discoveries" page or something, though even then I wouldn't know how to categorize it). -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 10:29, 30 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I totally agree with you. I think we give it a page in the Henson Company Movies category. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 20:04, 30 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I thought about that, but they didn't produce it, just possibly dubbed it and apparently acquired it and lent their name to the DVD (they get third billing in the press release after the Weinsteins and Genius Products, bvt all three are listed as "presenting" this thing). Actually, at this point, while it obviously doesn't merit full coverage (no pages for the voice actors), a page for The Blue Elephant may be needed just to clarify all this (I spent some time doing that on the Toughpigs forum, and nearly every website is referring to it as a Henson production, parroting some of the early promotional blurbs but not noticing the "fine print" press release). I didn't really want to, but I may have to NetFlix it just to check the credits and clarify some things. But in the meantime, Scott also removed it from the 2008 page, which makes sense (since right now the Henson connection is at most that they supervised the dubbing or at least that they just agreed to lend their name, and either case places the project below even Good Boy! relevance; the DVD packaging reminds you that Carl Reiner is in both, though!) If necessary, I may park some of this on a talk page to prevent any page creation until this is sorted out. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 20:44, 30 August 2008 (UTC)


 * And in fact, I did just that (which should work as far as discouraging any well-meaning editors from creating a page which might need to be deleted). I'll keep digging, but outside of the mass confusion, it's looking more and more like something that should be a footnote on the Jim Henson Company. (Of course, Family Rules is also a bit afield, but Brian Henson executive produced that, rather than dubbing some Ukrainian sitcom). -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 21:02, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

International voices
Hey! No arguments thus far, but take a look at Talk:Mupparnas Julsaga for a hypothetical, since for one actor, an unimpeachable source identifies who he dubbed: I just have no idea who it's supposed to be. :) Not a rush situation, since it may well take time for Henrik or someone like him to check, but just something to ponder: Would the named Muppet policy depend on who they dubbed? (Since in this case, the likely suspects are either Bean Bunny or Mr. Applegate). -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 23:45, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I think in a case like that, you wait until you know, and then you make the page. :) In my opinion, yeah, I would be less interested in Mr. Applegate, but I would leave it up to you. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 23:47, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I didn't even make the page to begin with. I'm just making note of any situations like that and possible questions, since it's easier now than later. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 23:49, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I know, it's all good. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 23:51, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Another note. If you can, check "what links here" before deleting. For a lot of the Scandinavian folks, Henrik created anywhere from one to three redirects, based on variations of their names. I'm going through the deleted log and fixing right now, but it's easier to delete the redirects first (all unused), then the page. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 00:17, 23 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Do we need to delete the redirects? If nobody uses them, they won't show up anywhere..... -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 00:26, 23 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, they'll show up as broken redirects and they'll be useless pages. I haven't tried "Random page" lately long enough to check, but I remember when it used to land on redirects (plus they show up on Google, so anyone who finds it will go to an empty page; eventually the main entry will be taken out of the cache, but the redirects won't if they're still here). -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 00:29, 23 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Random page doesn't bring up redirects, and neither does Google. So no problems! -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 00:30, 23 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Aha! Yeah, in that case, might as well wait for Scott to clean it up at some point (when they're all easily collected under broken redirects). -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 00:42, 23 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey, a follow up to that first query. Kim Menzer has been nuked, because the page wasn't updated accordingly, but on Muppets Fra Rummet, it notes that he dubbed Bobo and Ray Liotta (in a lot of cases, Henrik used "various characters" as shorthand when he didn't know precisely who they dubbed). Would that fit your criteria or not? Likewise, Aage Haugland dubbed K. Edgar Singer, but I know you haven't made up your mind yet on humans in Muppet movies (I just checked in, mostly working on finishing something right now, but like I said, it's easier for me to mention these as I find them). -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 03:25, 23 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, those work! I'm glad you caught 'em. As you can see, it's super easy to restore the pages if and when more information turns up... -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 04:10, 23 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi Danny you missed Bente Eskesen, the page should be removed according to the discussion about the international voice actors. Henrik ( talk ) 10:11, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, thanks for catching that! I must have skipped that one. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 14:42, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Page total?
Hi! Just curious, Danny. With the spate of deletions, requests to delete, and the issue over international voice actors (worth discussing, but seems like an urgency to purge, since you noted how many pages we could dump), is there something going on? Just trying to get rid of stubs and pages you don't like, or is it a google issue? -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 01:53, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * No, just general wiki housekeeping. I've mostly doing some random page clean-ups lately -- just hitting random page and then fixing whatever needs to get fixed -- capitalization, adding a cite tag, whatever. If it looks like a page that we don't need, I delete it. Most of the pages I've deleted lately have been pages that Carolyn or Dean created back in early 2006, which we wouldn't allow if they were created now. But those pages were created a long time ago, and nobody notices them anymore, unless you're hitting random page a lot.


 * So I don't feel like I have any particular urgency, any more than I feel urgency about changing "Audio Releases" to "Audio releases" -- something else I've been doing a lot of lately. It's just housekeeping, stuff that should get done whenever we get around to it, and I happen to be getting around to it.


 * So, yeah, if it seems random that I started asking about the international voice actors, that makes sense -- I spotted it by hitting random page. :) But I think it's good that we're having the conversation, and coming up with some general standards for those pages. The wiki is so sprawling and diverse, so there's lots of little areas where we've never had an explicit discussion about what we're doing and why. That's okay -- there's no urgency to do that stuff, we just do it as we find it and think of it. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 03:03, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * That makes me feel better. Whenever you start on a run like that (especially without talk page discussions in most cases), my first thought is either "Why the rush?" or "Oh dear, is this because of some foreboding tech/space/Google juice issue waiting to consume small mammals?" And it was less the randomness than the "Hey, we can dump 50 pages! Yay for nuking!" that made me wonder. I sometimes feel the same about useless pages or those which clearly violate standards, I just don't bother to knotch them up. :) -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 05:35, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, you must have misunderstood what I was saying there -- I was actually trying to suggest the opposite. As in, if we apply these criteria, we'll only lose about 50 pages out of 350, so it's not like we're gutting the category or anything. I don't want to delete pages just to delete pages, silly. How would we ever get to 20,000 if I did that? :) -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 06:30, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Practice? -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 07:01, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Citation Irony
I noticed that you put a citation needed note in the Jerry Nelson page, wodnerign where his semi-retirement was announced. While I don't know, I remember that I first read about his semi-retirement on your website, in late-2004/ early-2005, long before you started having other people write articles on your site. I don't know if this will help you remember where the news came from. I hope this will help you remember. --Minor muppetz 18:44, 18 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think it was on Tough Pigs.... if it was, I don't remember it. That sentence was added by an anon user, back in December '05... I don't know how we track it down now. Is there anything on Muppet Central about it? -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 18:59, 18 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Heya Danny, it looks like you did say something about Jerry's retirement on ToughPigs . — <font colr="Blue">Joe (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 05:50, 19 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, yeah, I guess so... but it wasn't really an official announcement or anything... -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 06:06, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Invasion of the Batmen
Hey, we're having an interesting discussion on Skype if you're around. —Scott ( talk ) 02:26, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Just a note
Thanks for all the fine tuning you've been doing with song titles and record pages. You've caught stuff I've never noticed before, even after all this time!

Oh, and I'm having a great time double-checking Ernie and Bert material with Sesamestreet.org. I'm glad we had already pieced together all the guides on our own, but being able to see so much classic stuff again will make our site even better! -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 10:22, 16 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, every once in a while I figure out a new (easy) project that I can do when I have a spare minute, so the song page tuning is my project of the week. :) I haven't had the time to dive into the new site as much as I want to -- this weekend I'm going to really get into it! -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 17:34, 16 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Cool! Here's one I know we'll both like! -- <font color="Blue">Ken  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 22:09, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Category Pipe
Heya. What's with the space after the pipe in all the category tags? —Scott ( talk ) 23:23, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yay! It's Scott! I missed you. Are you talking about Muppet Merchandise? -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 23:32, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * It's related to this discussion from Current events... trying to avoid the weird alphabet tricks in the merchandise categories. They got out of hand and very confusing. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 23:33, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah, I see. I've missed a lot. —Scott ( talk ) 23:42, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * You were around for that; that was a month ago. Silly mans. Welcome back! -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 23:44, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

It's Time to Buy a Lunchbox
Hey, Danny! I went to Disneyland today, and they actually have 2 new lunchboxes, dated 2008, made by somebody called loungefly.com. I know you've been doing a lot of work with the housewares, so I thought of you when I saw them. I couldn't get a picture, but I'll put them on the Muppet Lunchboxes page. I'm so glad that Disneyland is starting to carry new Muppet stuff! -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 05:29, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yay, that's cool! What did they look like? I have a couple pictures of new-ish lunchboxes, and I'm not sure who made them... -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 18:12, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * If you go to loungefly.com, and click on the "Muppets" link, there are pictures of 4 Muppet items, 2 of which are the lunchboxes I saw (1 Kermit and 1 Animal). -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 21:54, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Hoobah
Smart idea cleaning up all those Hoobs stubs. I'm too tired and depressed right now to mess with it, but Hoobs itself should probably be de-linked and redirected, since there's nothing to be said about them except that they're furry, inquisitive, and live in a redlink (all of which can be added to the show page). -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 04:07, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I think there's more to be said... We just don't have anybody who's interested in saying it. It's kind of like Fraggles or Doozers... I'm sure there's a whole natural history that you could piece together if you watch all the episodes. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 17:49, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I just think it's sad to have a page with that one sentence perpetually, since it's been like that since December 2006, and the only person with any episodes or interest in it was Brad, who seems to have abandoned it, and right now the show page itself is pretty pathetic, so a merge seems more helpful than a continued stub (we've done that before, always with the idea that when someone with the info and interest comes along, they can break it out). Also, I checked the Channel 4 website, which is where Brad got most of the lexicon, and even they only have this to say: "The Hoobs are a race of great explorers. They come from Hoobland, a sunny, colourful world. They travel the Universe, investigating the different planets they visit. Each day, wherever they are, they find the answer to a question about the world they are currently visiting." That's a vast improvement, but it still sounds more like show premise stuff right now than a basis for a Muppet Character Types page. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 21:01, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, you're right. We can always re-create it if somebody cares enough. But that's not super likely. :) -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 21:31, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * So, is the unlikelihood of anyone caring an argument for keeping the perpetual stub, or for merging, o enigmatic one? -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 21:56, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I didn't realize I was being enigmatic. I was agreeing with you. Let's delete/redirect it. :) -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 22:01, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Steps to Download Pictures
Hello, Danny, this is Chris14. you know I just enter to Muppet Wiki about a few months ago, but to make myself more useful to the wiki, I need to know how to download and upload images. I'm a newcomer so please help if you have a chance. Chris14 8:57, 7 August 08 (UTC)


 * Hi, Chris. Just click on "Upload image" in the toolbox on the left... That'll let you upload pictures from your computer to the wiki. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 01:57, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Dear Danny, I still don't get it. Please give a step-by-step technique. You can use my page to show me. Just please help me so I can be a better wiki user. Chris14 8:49, 15 August 08 (UTC)


 * Here's some more information: Image help. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 18:16, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Spoof vs Parody
Hey! Not a big deal, but curious: Why did you change parody to spoof on Jacques Shoesteau? Whim or something else? (On the Wikiat present, articles use either pretty much at random, though strictly speaking parody is more accurate when applied to a person, and the dictionary definition of spoof as a noun is "a light humorous parody.") -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 08:04, 3 August 2008 (UTC)


 * For me, "parody" has a harsher connotation than words like "spoof" or "takeoff". Parody seems harsher, like you're making fun of something. For the most part, Sesame Street is gentle -- they're not making fun of Jacques Shoesteau, they're just using his persona as the basis for a joke. But that's just my understanding of the connotations, and I might be wrong... What do you think? -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 15:22, 3 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that's just you. There's no such connotation of intent inherent in the words . There might be with the words "lampoon" or "satire" perhaps, but no such real distinction exists between parody and spoof (which is why, in either case, you come across sentences like "mean-spirited spoof" and "biting parody.") Like I said, right now Muppet Wiki is inconsistent in general, but in general, parody is more common and more formal, spoof is considered colloquial (and tends to be applied more to things like movies, TV shows, etc, as opposed to people, but there's no real rule either way; it's just that spoof originally did carry connotations of hoax and deception in the form of a popular light-hearted parlor game and only later was used as a synonym for parody, so if anything, spoof can actually have more of a negative connotation, i.e. e-mail spoofing and so on, and can also refer to forgery). I'm not necessarily tied to the word parody, mind, but I wanted to know why you changed it, and the connotations really don't exist unless specifically implied via context and adjectives.
 * Also, while we're discussing word usage, I noticed way *way* back in 2006, you renamed articles involving doctors, like Dr. Duberman to Doctor Duberman. Now that time has passed (and I have the book, and the others like that, they just use "Dr."), is it okay to move those back? -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 03:35, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, I guess I'm wrong on the connotations for parody and spoof. However, it still feels wrong to me to say "Jacques Shoesteau is a parody of Jacques Cousteau," because I'm not sure that "parody" applies to individuals. You can parody a show, but can you parody a person?


 * And, yeah, you're right about the doctors. Since 2006, we've established more clearly that what's in the book should be on the wiki. So if it says Dr. Duberman in the book, then yeah, that's cool. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 16:40, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Parody does apply to individuals (in fact, that's how it was first used). In general, however, it works better in the noun form, than the verb, so "is a parody of" works but "The character parodies so and so" sounds awkward. Spoof tends to work better in the verb form, or when dealing with shows and so on, but again, they're synonyms, with parody having more history and generally preferred for formal uses, so there's no hard and fast rules. I'm just going by what's more common. Plus, there's the fact that the whole category is Category:Parody Muppets, so it actually makes more sense in that context to use the word when it applies (in some cases, it's really just a pun on the name or something, not the actual person, but in this case, it's clear the joke is "What if Jacques Cousteau were a shoe?") Ah, it's been ages since I've enjoyed a good discussion on denotation, connotation, and etymology. What fun! -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 20:20, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, that's clearer for me now. Thanks! -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 20:22, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Puppeteers
Dear Danny, I just notice you edited my article about my personal interest on the female puppeteers and I left a message to Wagglethis. Didn't mean to make her uncomfortable like I sexually harrassing her, just wanted to let her happy and I take an interst in her career of puppetery. Plus I spent hours typing my article just to see it deleted. Please leave a comment. User talk: Chris14 7:59, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I understand that you didn't mean to make people uncomfortable. Still, what you wrote came off as creepy. Please don't do that anymore. -- <font color="Blue">Dany (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 15:49, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Okay Danny, you win! I promise to not make any wiki user be uncomfortable. Just please don't be angry! User talk: Chris14 6:58, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Welcome
Hi Danny, just wanted to say thanks (belatedly) for the welcome. I'm watching a lot of old Muppet Show eps lately (Season 1), so I've been reading a lot of Muppet Wiki.