Talk:The Muppets (film)

Film vs Movie
There are a bunch of pages that link to this article, as well as a The Muppets (film) Characters category. We've also got our first example of Muppets merchandise this week, so we'll probably need a Merchandise category before long.

So before we go too far down that road -- can we call it The Muppets (movie) instead? We've used both in the past -- we have a Movies category, but we tend to use (film) in article titles, for ex: Alice in Wonderland (film) and Where the Wild Things Are (film). I prefer movie, and I checked the Google Keywords tool -- people search for "Muppet movie" a lot more than "Muppet film". Anybody object to creating these pages & categories as (movie)? -- Danny (talk ) 23:13, May 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * Were we following Wikipedia's example by using "Film" instead of "movie"? And couldn't "The Muppets (movie)" be a redirect? - Oscarfan 23:27, May 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * It could be, but I think "The Muppets (movie)" sounds better and will be better for us in Google search results. I don't really care much about what Wikipedia does. -- Danny (talk ) 23:31, May 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * My only concern is that people will confuse it with The Muppet Movie, but I guess we could put a note at the top, like we do for some of the records and books that have similar titles. Other than that, I'm okay with it. -- Ken  (talk ) 02:46, May 21, 2011 (UTC)

Repeat?
Aren't we already doing this page as Muppet movie news? -- Danny (talk ) 18:00, February 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * This is more an article on the film as compared to a listing of every development, production update, set photo, and media mention (Most of which won't be notable in 10 months). It's kind of an update version of The Greatest Muppet Movie of All Time!!! article and formatted and cleaned up to be closer to what the final article should be like.
 * This is an article on the actual film, while Muppet movie news is more collection of all the updates on its production and release. -- Brad D. (talk ) 20:08, February 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * But that means that we have to keep two different (almost identical) articles updated. That's silly. We don't need separate articles yet for the film, the characters, the locations, etc. There's plenty of time to build all of that out. Right now, all of the articles in the Characters category that you created are repeating information and pictures from the main article.
 * There are two reasons why we keep In Development stuff to one page, in a special category. First, stuff changes in development, and it's easier to keep one page updated than several. Second -- there isn't enough to say about an unreleased project yet. The character articles that you created are just repeating information and pictures from the main article. It's an incestuous knot of six pages that all link together and say the same things. -- Danny (talk ) 01:11, February 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree that having two almost identical articles is being a bit repetitive; but I think these two page are different - and are evolving in different directions.
 * This page is an article summarizing the film and it's production (similar to what we have for the other Muppet films). I know the release is 9+months away and we don't have all the information yet, but this will grow and evolve. There's time to flesh it out and polish it as we get the information.
 * The Muppet movie news page is more of a list of production updates. It chronicles every little update on the production - all the media coverage, production leaks, casting rumors, etc. It's a timeline of production updates - and during the early stages of pre-production it helped us keep a pulse of the production's status. Two years from now, a lot of what's on that page is going to be non-notable in an article on the film. Will we need to note that while making the press rounds for Get Him to the Greek, Nick Stoller commented on the film's status? Or on April 22, 2010, Disney chairman Rich Ross commented on the film? And once the release is closer there will be even more (possibly daily) little news stories to put somewhere.
 * This page is on the film itself. The movie news page is on the news coverage of the production (talk show appearances, interview mentions, production leaks, set photos, etc). I think they are different.
 * I didn't create all the character pages, but I think some are worthwhile. The Walter and Tex Richman articles include unique information and quotes that aren't on the other pages. I think they are interesting. The Gary and Mary articles are a little weak right now...but I'm sure they'll grow. We have pages for character from released productions that are less interesting or informative. I think it's better to have a bit of a foundation of articles here, rather than wait till Thanksgiving day to have everything explode.-- Brad D. (talk ) 03:42, February 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't see what this "have everything explode" concern is, Brad. Also though, there's nothing wrong with info parking on talk pages, which we've done often, before moving to the actual article. These are things we used to either infopark or do as sandbox pages, because otherwise we really *don't* want to create pages for characters until a production has been released (and we've been pretty strict about it in the past, with the occasional lapse). The Tex Richman pic isn't even very good, it's a behind the scenes shot which barely shows Chris Cooper and says nothing about the character, and they're all behind the scenes quotes and advance stuff, since that's all we'll have until the movie comes out. I know this is the biggest Muppet event to happen since the Wiki began, Brad, but I don't think it's too much to ask to keep stuff to one page or, if you want to lay a foundation, do it on talk pages or sandbox. In fact it's all there on Category talk:In Development as policy, and something everyone should keep in mind (I'm doing some cleanup on that right now, on stuff started by other users as well, so it's not something aimed at you, Brad). Should this be moved to current events? -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 19:04, February 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * The release date is still ten months away. There is going to be plenty of time to work on all of those pages. For now -- my main concern is that it's six pages to update instead of one. I totally agree that the "updates" page has become long and dull. I think it's time to start consolidating that and taking out old news that isn't news anymore. But I'd rather do that on one page instead of several. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 19:31, February 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * There is still plenty of time to work on all of those pages. So if you want to sandbox the other pages for now so we can use the time to still work on them, that's fine. -- <font color="Blue">Brad D. (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 20:11, February 2, 2011 (UTC)

What about cast and crew pages? Segel, Cooper, Arkin, Black, Crystal, Eden, Gaga, Galifianakis, Gervais, Griffin, Sykes, and Stiller have pages for other legitimate Muppet/Creature Shop interactions. However we have articles for Amy Adams, Bret McKenzie, Nick Stoller, James Bobin and Mickey Rooney who (currently) are only connected through this film. Should we merge them for now too? What about creating articles for other confirmed cast/crew members (like Rashida Jones or Mila Kunis)? -- <font color="Blue">Brad D. (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 15:41, February 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * I think it's fair to have cast and crew pages for the main people. We can easily accommodate all of the character information on the main movie page, but cast and crew bios are unwieldy, and we'll want to gather information about the people as we go along. I think it's premature to have new pages for cameo celebs, for a few reasons: It's possible that the rumor about a particular person isn't true, it's possible for cameo scenes to be cut from the film, and (most of all) those pages won't be very interesting right now -- just "this person has filmed a cameo for the Muppets film." -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 17:43, February 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * Scott just made an edit taking out some info that's just a rumor -- that's why I think this should be one page for now. I'm going to delete this page so we can keep building Muppet movie news -- obviously, we'll re-create this page as we get closer to the release. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 20:06, February 9, 2011 (UTC)