Talk:The Muppets (2011)

Plot on Muppet Central
"On vacation in Los Angeles, Walter, the world’s biggest Muppet fan, and his friends Gary (Jason Segel) and Mary (Amy Adams) from Smalltown, USA, discover the nefarious plan of oilman Tex Richman (Chris Cooper) to raze the Muppet Theater and drill for the oil recently discovered beneath the Muppets’ former stomping grounds.

To stage The Greatest Muppet Telethon Ever and raise the $10 million needed to save the theater, Walter, Mary and Gary help Kermit reunite the Muppets, who have all gone their separate ways: Fozzie now performs with a Reno casino house band called the Moopets, Miss Piggy is a plus-size fashion editor at Vogue Paris, Animal is in a Santa Barbara clinic for anger management, and Gonzo is a high-powered plumbing magnate.

With secret, signature, celebrity cameos, The Muppets hits the big screen Nov. 23, 2011."

Do we trust this? Other than 4chan, I can't find this exact wording anywhere. -- Zanimum 15:42, December 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't see how, the theater's a landmark and can never be torn down. ;) Powers 16:52, December 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Har har. No, I'm meaning can the specifics be trusted, like the character names, the telethon bit. Given how the mainstream media seems rabidly reporting every shred of detail, it's amazing Muppet Central would be the only one to post this. --  Zanimum 21:15, December 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, in a roundabout way, I'm saying that it sounds a little fishy to me. That's awfully similar to the plot of the Christmas special from a few years back.  While it's true that the Muppets have never been known for their continuity of plot, it still seems odd to recycle a plot in that way.  Powers 18:23, December 12, 2010 (UTC)

Title
It is looking more and more likely that the title of this film could very well end up being "The Muppets." Now the release of the film is well over a year away (things could change), and it may be a while before substantial promotional material (such as a trailer or poster) come out to confirm anything officially. Right now this page works well to chronicle the news and developments of the project, but eventually we'll rework it into an article on the film itself.

If the title does end up actually being "The Muppets" how are we as a wiki going to handle it? Will we reappropriate The Muppets (which is currently just a redirect to Category:The Muppets Characters) for the article on the 2011 film? Or will we disambiguate it using something such as The Muppets (film) as the page title? What about for related categories? Will, for example, Walter go into Category:The Muppets (film) Characters and the soundtrack into Category:The Muppets (film) Merchandise? There's no need to move stuff around or create categories/pages right now, but we might want to discuss it preemptively before any conflicts arise when more information and excitement start to flood in. -- Brad D. (talk ) 06:05, November 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think it's still too early to tell. The film is over a year away still. We should wait for promotional materials to surface before committing to anything. For now "Muppet Movie News" is best for SEO anyway. When the time comes, if the title is indeed The Muppets, then some form of disambiguation would be in order. But we should cross that bridge when we come to it. — scarecroe 06:08, November 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * I have access to Disney's presskit site (which right now is still calling it The Muppets, but their latest CG film was initially Rapunzel, then Tangled (Formerly Known as Rapunzel) for ages, and the name change was official less than six months ago), so I'll be able to upload the final film credits and any prior publicity as it surfaces (so far it's just the same "table read" picture that everyone has). -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 07:48, November 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree that we should wait before moving or renaming anything. There is no big rush to answer the question - but I think it's worth discussing. The title could end up changing from "The Muppets" and this whole issue would be moot. However when a title is confirmed, if it does end up being "The Muppets" it would nice to know how we're going to handle it here (not just for the main article, but sub-cats too). "The Muppets", "The Muppets (film)", "The Muppets (movie)", "The Muppets (2011)", "The Muppets (feature film)",...? Because the moment an official title hits the web and the information and editors start to flood in (like when the first trailer or poster is released), it would be nice to have an answer standing by and ready to go to prevent any conflicts or un-uniformity. I know it may be a long way off, but I think it would be good to work out what form of disambiguation we want to use while there isn't any presure on us, and to avoid the potential of any one person making an improper, impulsive or solitary decision. Then we'll have an answer already standing by just in case the title is indeed "The Muppets". -- Brad D. (talk ) 14:51, November 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, obviously we can't use "The Muppets" and I think "The Muppets (movie)" would be too confusing given the 1979 movie. "The Muppets (film)" is out because we don't use that identifier to disambiguate anything else here and "The Muppets (feature film)" is long and clumsy. The one that makes the most sense to me is "The Muppets (2011)" using the year of release to disambiguate as we do sometimes with books and albums. — scarecroe 17:27, November 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well usually we don't disambiguate films, and give priority to the film and disambiguate everything off it. However we have used (film) as an identifier - see Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (film), Where the Wild Things Are (film), Alice in Wonderland (film), Nashville (film), Gone with the Wind (film), Henson (film), Nashville (film), The Seven Deadly Sins (film)...
 * Usually we disambiguate based on medium (i.e. (soundtrack), (song), (book), (video), (character)...) and only use years if there are two articles within the same medium (such as two songs or two books with the same titles - although we've often use composers/authors; or two characters with the same name - although we often use production or character type there). Do you have some examples of where we've used years?
 * Also how would we disambiguate ancillary products like storybooks, soundtracks, and home videos of the film? Simply "The Muppets (video)", or "The Muppets (2011) (video)", or "The Muppets (2011 video)" (which would be confusing when the DVD actually comes out in 2012)? -- Brad D. (talk ) 19:09, November 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * What about "Jason Segel's The Muppets"? --Edward Rankin 21:02, November 30, 2010 (UTC)

Oh yeah, we have used (film), haven't we? Okay, that would be consistent, then. — scarecroe 21:06, November 30, 2010 (UTC)

GQ
The July 2010 issue of GQ magazine (Taylor Lautner cover) features an interview with Jason Segel, during which he discusses puppetry, the importance of sad Muppets, and his driving-force-involvement in getting the new movie made. You guys might want to check it out and add whatever you deem relevant to the wiki. Ernie and Bert make an appearance in another article (with the catchy title "Is it okay to call your friend a Queerbot? How about a Gaywad? >Clearly you need our Handy Guide to Homophobia") that might be worthy of a mention over here. Just a heads up. — Julian (talk ) 00:50, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Here's the Muppet-relevant part of the interview:
 * How's the Muppet movie coming along? Nothing against any of your other projects, but this is the one I'm most excited about.
 * It's my dream come true, man.


 * How did you end up pitching yourself to relaunch the Muppets?
 * It was right after Sarah Marshall, and I had a little bit of juice all of a sudden. Writing juice. And I took this meeting at Disney, and they're pitching me different stuff to rewrite, and I stopped, and I said, "Thank you, this is all very flattering"—which it was, it's supercool to suddenly be in that position—"but listen. You guys own the Muppets, and you're just kind of sitting on 'em. I really love the Muppets, and I think I know how to bring the franchise back." And there was literally laughter in the room. Like, "Oh—R-rated Segel is making a weird joke." And I said, "No, I'm serious. And I'm not gonna make it the Judd Apatow version of the Muppets. It's not gonna be ironic."


 * So you pitch that, and then they laugh.…
 * They laughed, and then I got a call on the way home from my agent, going, "They bought it, if you're serious." What happened was, Henson Company created the puppets for Sarah Marshall. And I was there, and I said, "Hey, while I'm here, can I maybe see a Kermit and a Miss Piggy?" And they got this kinda sad look, and they said, "Um, we don't have Kermits or Piggys. We sold everything to Disney." [incredibly serious now] And it all sorta made sense, why the Muppets have disappeared. That's something that really has to come from an individual person's passion. There's CGI now, and there's all these things that are theoretically cooler, but you'll never be able to replace the actual, tactile thing. Like when Kermit scrunches his face? You can't repeat that with CGI. I think when you can sit and make it perfect to the degree you want, you lose some of the humanity of it.


 * Who's your favorite Muppet?
 * It's between Kermit and Fozzie. I cannot get over Fozzie's bad jokes and the confidence that he delivers them with. Fozzie Bear has so many bear puns in this script—like, "Traffic is grizzly!" "This is unbearable!" It's the greatest. But when you get to one of those really earnest Kermit speeches? That is fucking awesome. [perfect Kermit voice] "Guys, this is about friendship, not about money! If we're not together, then, heck, I don't want to be here at all." Kermit was the original Everyman to me. The original Tom Hanks, the original Jimmy Stewart.


 * Muppets Take Manhattan fucking destroyed me when I was a kid. The part where the Muppets break up is really emotionally affecting.
 * Yeah. When Kermit sends them off, and they sing "Saying Goodbye"? I had to cite that a lot in these pitch meetings, because I kept getting notes from, like, the Muppet brass, saying, "Muppets are never sad. Muppets never break up." And I had to be like, "No—they do. And that's the best part." That's sort of where they got away from the beauty of the Muppets. They became all happy-go-lucky. Even the opening of The Muppet Movie. "Rainbow Connection"—that's not a happy-go-lucky song. He's alone in a swamp, hoping for something more.

--Justin 02:45, June 26, 2010 (UTC)

title
I moved this back to "The Greatest Muppet Movie of All Time!!!" as there's no real source that the title has changed. The Playlist got their information from The Film Stage and they don't cite a source. It's likely coming from Box Office Mojo which is only using "The Muppets" as a placeholder title. —Scott ( talk ) 17:05, June 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I deleted "The Muppets" earlier today but time and PC problems prevented me from doing anything else. So to reiterate the rule which we'd discussed before (when it was unclear which title would be given to the actual movie), given how convoluted the history of this project has been (and likely will be until it actually opens), should be that any potential retitling be discussed *first* on this talk page, since it otherwise just messes with links and so on and adds more work. Sources should be cited clearly on the talk page and the subject open to discussion before any actual move takes place (plus, unless we actually get Segel saying "Oh yeah, now the movie is just called 'The Muppets'," it's not surprising for the press or even those involved to use a shorthand title over a seven word title with three exclamation marks). -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 19:34, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

tracking progress
So, in light of our discussion about how to handle the movie news between the two different scripts (one by Segel and an original treatment by Jerry Juhl), it looks like they're going with the Segel script, or at least a version of it. The latest AP article quotes a Disney exec talking about the original character created for his story. —Scott ( talk ) 18:20, April 23, 2010 (UTC)

More News?
I've been seeing tons of articles popping up stating pretty much the same thing:

"“[It's] about Gary, Mary, and Walter (a man, his girlfriend, and the man’s life-long nondescript, brown puppet best friend) getting the old Muppet gang — now retired entertainers known for the same Muppet show we know them from — together to save the TV studio that the original show was shot in. A villain, Tex Richman, bent on drilling for oil underneath the studio, is due to take over the studio in weeks and the only way to stop him? Putting on a show that draws ten million viewers.”"

Thought I'd put up the link if someone wants to work with it. -- ''Nate (talk ) 17:50, February 12, 2010 (UTC)