Talk:Mr. Snuffleupagus

Article title, again
I just looked at the conversation below about the title of this article, and I'd like to reopen the question. I was one of the people arguing to change this from "Mr. Snuffleupagus" to "Aloysius Snuffleupagus", and I've started to think that I was wrong. Is anyone interested in reviving this question? -- Danny (talk ) 18:06, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I never liked the change. Not least because it's encouraged users, in articles, to make sure all references are as "Aloysius Snuffleupagus," even in the appearances pre-dating the name (which we do with minor characters, like Mr. Johnson, but I think that's different). -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 21:13, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Attention
Mr. Snuffleupagus is such a major character, but the majority of this article focuses on when he was thought to be imaginary. The adults have known him to be real for years, yet the main article on him doesn't talk much about the time since the adults finally saw him. I think this page could use some more info about what has happened since he became real to the entire cast. --Minor muppetz 19:34, 15 September 2006 (UTC)


 * This page could also use sources for the backstage info -- why Snuffy was revealed, the Matt Robinson quote at the bottom.


 * In general, it could also use some copy editing... -- Danny (talk ) 11:25, 7 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I think you meant Marty Robinson, not Matt Robinson, yes? =)  Powers 11:23, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Why did they choose to believe in him?
It says in this article that Gordon, Maria, and Linda eventually chose to believe that Snuffy was real even though they never saw him. However, it doesn't mention what led them to believe that he was real. After the sentence about believing in him, it mentions a time when Snuffy tried to talk to Linda, but didn't know that she was deaf. This makes it sound as if she chose to believe in him because he unsuccessfully tried to get her to hear him. I have read a post at Muppet Central that mentioend an episode where Big Bird got so upset over the others not believing in Snuffy that Maria just chose to believe him. I also know that in the episode where the adults finally saw Snuffy, Gordon mentioned something about him and a few others believing Big Bird before they saw him, but it would be good if somebody could explain the events that led them to believe in Mr. Snuffleupagus before they actually saw him. --Minor muppetz 19:06, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
 * It's been twenty years, my memory isn't good enough to recall the details. =)  I believe it was just a matter of Gordon finally realizing that Big Bird really believed Mr. Snuffleupagus existed, and that it wasn't fair to Big Bird to keep disbelieving him all the time.  Maria and Linda agreed.  I recall that folks like Luis and Olivia were incredulous that they'd choose to believe Big Bird.  Powers 00:40, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Milestones
I was looking at the list of milestones for Mr. Snuffleupagus, and I question some of the milestoens listed. It lists milestones for episodes such as the one where he went to the movies. How is that a milestone? In my opinion, a milestone should be considered part of character development, like his first appearance, being seen by the others for the first time, and some major revelations. The introduction of family members can also be considered. --Minor muppetz 19:17, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Then just change the name of the heading. It's notable events and plots involving Mr. Snuffleupagus, not that different, but more explicitly detailed, than "Episodes About" lists for Dinosaurs characters. Besides, "Honey I Shrunk the Snuffleupaguses" isn't listed just because he went to the movies, but he went to one explicitly starring Snuffleupaguses, and which brought out unexpected fears in Snuffy about suddenly becoming smaller, a condition unnatural to Snuffleupaguses. -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 19:40, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, I didn't know that "Honey, I Shrunk the Snuffleupagus" was about Snuffy going to the movies. There was another one listed as "Snuffy goes to the movies" that I was referring to. --Minor muppetz 20:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Age
Most of the Muppets on Sesame Street have an assigned age (Big Bird represents a 6-year-old, Elmo a 3-year-old, etc.). Even Alice is two (according to her article here). So how old is Snuffy supposed to be? Powers 15:18, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * And what's the point of the little + button up in the toolbar if it adds messages to the bottom? =)  Powers 15:19, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the + is a MediaWiki thing -- we don't have control over that, as far as I know. Other wikis put new messages at the bottom, so it's set up that way. -- Danny (talk ) 15:31, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I think I have read somewhere that Snuffy is supposed to be four years old. However, I cannot remember where I read it. Probably Sesame Street Unpaved. --Minor muppetz 19:15, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I recall the same age, but I've never read the book. =)  Powers 15:18, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I found it in the section on Mr. Snuffleupagus in Sesame Street Unpaved. It says that Snuffyis written to represent the age of a 4 year old. Is this good enough, or should we find a source that definately states his age as 4? --Minor muppetz 01:52, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Good enough for me; that's what they mean when they say Elmo is 3-1/2 or Big Bird is 6. Powers 03:18, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Article Title
I noticed that the official press kit refers to the character as "Aloysius Snuffleupagus (a.k.a. Snuffy)" in the cast list. I haven't kept up with the show religiously, but has the "Mister" been phased out more. I know we do full names for the human cast (Bob Johnson, Gordon Robinson...etc) and I don't want us to get carried away (such as renaming Bean Norman Bunny or adding Pigathius to Miss Piggy's title), but if Sesame Workshop is calling him "Aloysius Snuffleupagus" (and not using "Mr. Snuffleupagus") maybe we should consider renaming this article. We'd still have the redirect, but the formal title would be more accurate. Thoughts? -- Brad D. (talk ) 04:37, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Personally, I'd say no. Mr. Snuffleupagus was his official name for more than a decade (in dialogue, on record albums, Follow That Bird, etc), still used on merchandise, and though Aloysius is his "real" name (and we already have it as a redirect), it seems rather pointless to me to change it. -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 13:16, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd say the important thing is what they call him now. Not having watched the show in a while, I can only guess they call him "Snuffy" most of the time, though that doesn't seem like the best title either.  =)  Powers 14:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Snuffy is used most often, true, but it's already a redirect. They call Cookie Monster "Cookie" more often than not, but that's no reason to rename either. The page lists the various names, and even the Workshop's site vacillates between Snuffy, Mr. Snuffleupagus, and Aloysius, even if it uses the latter in the current character bios. Really, to me this is a non-issue. All the names are covered in the article, after all. -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 15:00, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * The name Aloysius is rarely used on the show. Casual fans are probably more likely to think of him as either Snuffy or Mr. Snuffleupagus. --Minor muppetz 15:02, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Well it's clear that Aloysius Snuffleupagus is his real name. It's not a one-time minor thing (or a joke). "Snuffy" "Aloysius" and "Mr. Snuffleupagus" are all nick-names; "Aloysius Snuffleipagus", technically, is his full name. It's an important enough thing for it to be still used and listed prominently in his Sesame Workshop bio (with no mention to the "Mr." name). It doesn't contradict "Mr. Snuffleupagus", it just gives more to the name (his first name). Bob Johnson has been "Bob" for more than a 3 decades (in dialogue, on record albums, merchandise etc), but the "Johnson" is part of his "real" and full name and we use that as the article title and use the less full name "Bob" as a redirect. Casual fans are probably more likely to think of him as Bob, but putting the "Bob Johnson" as the article title gives more information and is more complete. Most fans think of Mr. Johnson as "Fat Blue" but we don't pander to the more commonly known name; we use the fuller more official name. And if we learn his first name was Larry I bet we'd discuss renaming him "Larry Johnson". All the names are covered in the article, but which one should be touted as his name up at the top? I think the fuller name matches what we've done in the past with other characters.  It's like how we use "Floyd Pepper" over "Floyd" and "Sal Manilla" instead of just the more common "Sal". Why would we not use his first name? Just cause its not as commonly used, I think it's just as common (if not more so) than most last names and one-time names (i.e. Boppity). And we will/do have redirects. -- <font color="Blue">Brad D.  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 16:04, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * The thing is, "Floyd Pepper" and "Sal Manilla" have been their full names since the beginning. Through much of the 70s, his only name *was* Mr. Snuffleupagus, and its still what's used in most merchandise, in Sesame Street Unpaved, in countless screen/print credits, and so on. But if it means that much to you, go ahead and change it. Frankly, I probably wouldn't have moved Bob either. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 16:08, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * And by the way, Mr. Johnson in fact isn't more official (Sesame Workshop uses "Fat Blue," and the credits to Grover: A Celebration of Me use "Fat Blue Customer"). But since the name was used, it was a useful way to disambiguate him from the pattern. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 16:12, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I guess my whole issue is that if a character has a last name (no matter how minor) we use it (i.e. Gina Jefferson). This is one of the few times where we have a character that goes by their last name and have their first name (which is not that minor). Just thinking of naming conventions, its not a throw away gag, a one-time thing, or a contridiction. It's just more information. I'm not saying we have to all have to call him Aloysius everytime we mention him (the other names are "official" and acceptible), I'm just saying for the article title we might want to use the full name. -- <font color="Blue">Brad D. (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 16:27, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Brad that there are good reasons to change the title to "Aloysius Snuffleupagus" -- I think the comparison to "Bob Johnson" is a good one.

Here's the dialogue from their first meeting in Episode 0276:

Snuffy: "Oh, hello."

BB: "Well, hello. I'm Big Bird, who are you?"

Snuffy: "Oh, uh... that's easy, I'm, uh... ohhhh, yes, yes, I am a Snuffleupagus."

BB: "A Snuffleupagus?"

Snuffy: "Yeah."

BB: "Gosh! You hardly ever see those anymore."

A minute later, when Snuffy waters Big Bird's flowers:

BB: "Wow! Gosh! That's fantastic! Boy, you're really wonderful, Mr. Snuffleupagus!"

Snuffy: "Oh, thank you, Bird."

So it looks like "Mr. Snuffleupagus" is Big Bird's nickname for Snuffy, as "Bird" is Snuffy's for Big Bird. The New Who's Who on Sesame Street lists him simply as "Snuffleupagus", with "Alice" on the next page.

I would support a move to "Aloysius Snuffleupagus", as long as that's not used as the primary way to refer to the character in the article text. I'd hate to see all those sentences changed to "Aloysius first appeared on Sesame Street in episode 0276," etc. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 16:37, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, it also shows up on his mailbox and on a postcard in Follow That Bird, so it seems to be slightly more than a nickname. But if only the article, and not the sentences, are altered, then yeah, I'd concede. Though now with all this talk, I'm curious as to just when "Aloysius" *was* introduced. When Mommy Snuffleupagus arrived, or what? -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 16:55, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * That's a good question, I was wondering about that too. I'll change the article title... -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 16:56, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Here's the mailbox from Follow That Bird. My own guess, though we wouldn't want to add it until fully confirmed, is that initially "Mr. Snuffleupagus" was not just a nickname but used because his family had not been fully fleshed out (I believe he probably mentioned his Mommy early on, but as here, there was an implication that he lived more or less alone). Post 1985, when everyone could see him, Mommy was introduced and then Alice, and thus a full name and background. Though it's possible "Aloysius" was thrown in before then, but since Mommy is the only character to ever regularly address him that way, it seems as good a theory as any. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 17:10, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Mr. Snuffleupagus is still correct regardless of nicknames or "real" first names. My 8-year-old nephew receives mail addressed to "Mr. Hanson" ... although he doesn't have his own mailbox yet. — <font color="Blue">Scott (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 17:38, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Does he at least have his own toaster? -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 17:56, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Somebody said that if a first name was given to Mr. Johnson then his first name would be listed along with his last name. Wasn't he called Fred in one sketch? Shouldn't he be listed as Fred Johnson? --Minor muppetz 19:06, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Lincoln Center
When did Big Bird take Bob, Gordon, Susan and Linda to the Lincoln Center/Metropolitan Opera House, to meet with Snuffy? It's part of A Walking Tour of Sesame Street with James Earl Jones, part 3 on YouTube, at 2 minutes, 30 seconds. -- Zanimum 19:24, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I watched the clip. I believe that was the 10th season. &mdash;2Fast2Furious 12:26, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Invisible
Can Snuffy sometimes still go invisiable? I think I recall sometimes in which characters such as Elmo rode on his back appearing to be just floating through the air. Radar 4:08, 15 July 2006
 * Snuffy was never invisible. The reason why people didn't think he existed was because he would always walk away before Big Bird could bring anyone over to look at Snuffy. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 11:46, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I know that there was a two-part episode from Season 35where Snuffy became invisible. Maybe that's what you are thinking of. And besides, the other characters never thought he was invisible. They thought he was imaginary. I feel like there's a difference between imaginary and invisible. --Minor muppetz 14:26, 15 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree there is a difference between invisiable and imaginary. My question came because this week I recalled walking into the room while the show was playing and seeing Elmo floating through the air with Snuffy talking.  I looked it up online and it was an episode titledSnuffy's Invisible - Part 2 (#4070)
 * "Snuffy is still invisible at the start of this show. The magic ukulele has not been sent back to Sesame Street. Maria calls the repair shop only to find that the magic ukulele needs a new part and it might take a while to get it! While they are waiting, Snuffy, Big Bird, and Elmo sing the alphabet and try to stay busy until the fixed ukulele arrives. Then they learn that the fixit lady cannot fix the ukulele at all. Snuffy and Big Bird are very distressed. Will Snuffy ever be visible again? Big Bird figures out that even if Snuffy was invisible forever, he would still be his best friend. Finally fixit lady calls back to say she did find the missing piece and the problems are solved." I'll have to try to catch a reair of this episode to see what was going on with it. Radar 14:50, 15 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, okay, that makes sense. We have the titles listed on the Season 35 page, but we don't have pages yet for Episode 4069 and Episode 4070. If you want to create those, feel free! -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 15:26, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Snuffy's toy
What's the name of Snuffy's stuffed toy? Mr. Antillhoper? GrantHarding 14:43, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what the name of his stuffed toy is. If anyone can find the place that mentions the name of Snuffy's toy, then we would have a solution. 2Fast2Furious 20:15, 8 July 2006 (UTC)