User:Aleal/Talk Archive 10

Archive of Andrew's talk page.

Cats and Dogs
I can see that you moved Vibeke Dueholm's credit for Cats and Dogs up to the other Henson credits. Do that mean that is will be ok to add Hund og kat imellem (Denmark) to international translations ? Rytter 08:00, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmmm. I moved it because when discussing acting roles, we always group both Muppet/Jim Henson Company and any Creature Shop projects (whether wholly produced by Henson or just effects work for outside studios). It's not strictly a Henson movie, but it is a Creature Shop production, so why not? Although in a case like this, I'm not sure if a link to the dk Cinema website with the credits wouldn't be more appropriate. Do you know if you can find a poster? That certainly made a difference on Sandtrolden, for example (which I quite like). -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 14:06, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I added Sandtrolden due to the fact that Jim Henson Pictures are credited for it, and that is not the case of Cats and Dogs. My first thought is that it really don't belongs there since it's as you say a creature shop effect movie. I'am not sure I can dig up a movie poster, but I can supply a dvd cover. Rytter 15:06, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Ooooh, that's pretty. You might want to ask Danny. I know he loves the international stuff, and really, if we're including movies like Around the World in 80 Days as Creature Shop Movies, on the one hand it sort of makes sense. On the other, there's the fact that dubs are by their nature a further remove; I certainly don't think we should waste time tracking dubs of The English Patient, for example, though any overlap there could be noted on the international voice actors' page. -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 15:12, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I can follow you on those points. What about if a listing of a international translation could be based on what kind of effects that the creature shop have done on a specific movie. If the movie have animatronics that actually talk, then that might qualify a listing. But if it is makeup or computer effects like The English Patient then it would not be listed as a international translation. And about tracking The English Patient  dubs that wont be a issue for the nordic countries, since only movies aimed at kids gets dubbed here, unlike Germany that dubs everything :) . Rytter 15:27, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * That makes sense to me. Again, it wouldn't hurt to mention it to Danny first before making such a page, but I think it would probably work. It's either that or create an International Mr. Tinkles page! -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 15:48, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

King Kong
It always looks nice to me when a gallery has an even number of images. — Scott (talk ) 23:07, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Nigel the Director
Why did you revert my change to Nigel the Director? That phrase could refer to either Nigel. Powers 19:56, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * No it couldn't. The point was it was deliberately a redirect, just as Nigel the Conductor was to the Muppet Show Nigel, phrases that had been used all over the Wiki. Changing the redirect doesn't help. Changing the links within the text, as you did, so nothing links to it, *that* helps. -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 20:10, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, it could. If I come to Muppet Wiki and want to know who the guy who leads the Muppet Show pit orchestra is, and I enter "Nigel the Director" in the search box, I'm going to get the wrong guy.  Powers 14:00, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * That's not the point. The point is, ideally, nothing should link to a disambig page, so changing it that way wouldn't help in any way. Muppet fans used the term "Nigel the Director," and that had been the original name for the character page before we decided, since the phrase was never used on the show itself, to change it. Thus the reason for the redirect (we should still do something about Nigel the Conductor, which likewise has no basis). Nothing links there now anymore, so I'm going to go ahead and delete it, and hopefully settle the matter. -- Andrew Leal  (talk ) 14:04, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Wiki Administration
I just gained administrative privileges for another Wiki and I was wondering if you could help me on something. Can you tell me how I would go about adding an item to the navigation box that appears on the right. BTW, the Wiki in question is the HPWiki. George B. ''(talk ) 05:29, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid I can't really help. As far as I can tell, it's not a Wikia Wiki, so I have no idea how it works. Here, and on all other Wikia sites, there's MediaWiki:Sidebar, which is how those items are changed. I don't know how it works on the Harry Potter thing. You'd need to ask the founders or somebody with experience over there. -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 05:38, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * They're using MediaWiki, but not a recent version. It's possible that older versions of the software didn't allow for navigation editing unless you had PHP access. Wikia uses version 1.7alpha, and we can do it the way Andrew described. — <font color="Blue">Scott (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 06:00, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh. So they'd probably need to look into upgrading the software. Okay, thanks. <font color="Blue">George B. ''(<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 08:21, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

"Incidentally..."
I added some stuff to The Value of Imagination. The last item in "Errata" is just the most shocking lie. I can't believe it's there. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 02:48, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The whole book sounds delightfully bizarre, like most ValueTales, and factually questionable. I wonder if the cowboy next to Pierre is meant to be Longhorn and/or Shorthorn. And Jim Henson as Sage in a spice pageant! That sounds way too wacky to be true, but I'd love to see the illustration for it. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 02:55, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

block
Did you block yourself on purpose or was this an accident? -- <font color="Blue">Peter (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 03:45, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * On purpose. I had a bad day yesterday, way behind on things. I was losing it (see Brad's talk page) and still couldn't stay away from the Wiki. I'm weak. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 18:00, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

email
Have you been getting any of my emails? — <font color="Blue">Scott (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 22:14, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't know. How many have you sent? I got one, vaguely defined "wikia mailing list," and asking that, but I didn't know if it meant your personal mail or Wikia mailing list mail or what have you. Nothing else has reached me since. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 22:16, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, the one about the wikia mailing list. So you got that. Did you get any of the messages I sent to the mailing list about images.wikia.com? — <font color="Blue">Scott (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 22:24, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Wasn't that awhile back? About images taking awhile to show up or whanot? I think so. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 22:26, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Dance of the Vampires
Ah! That makes me want to create a Rene Auberjonois page so bad! — <font color="Blue">Scott (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 00:20, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * You probably could! It's officially designated as a Creature Shop production, so he could go in Category:Creature Shop Actors. It's a reasonable assumption that he probably shared stage time with the animatronic bat at some point, and even if not, it's at least as viable a connection as Halle Berry or John Barrowman have. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 00:52, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Date Linking
Hey, whats the deal with date linking? If there is a valid redirect, why shouldn't they be linked? Pre-1954 is a pretty open-ended article and I think its great that all the years link there: it pulls all the data from these years into one article, great organization, and it actually gives the viewer more information than they'd expect, since the article spans so widely...? --Cantus Rock 04:15, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
 * True, it just seems a little misleading to me to include a link for a year, redirect or otherwise, that isn't actually mentioned, should they suddenly be wondering why they can't actually find 1935 or 1949 etc. (and not all of the dates from that range are redirected anyway). If you want to put it back in, though, it's up to you. It just frankly seemed potentially confusing and rather useless, especially since the time-line is so well linked to from other pages. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 04:21, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah that makes sense. I think it still works, just because its almost like saying "19XX doesn't really have anything of interest, but of this formative era, these major events took place in these years." Its either/or, I just want to keep it consistent. --Cantus Rock 05:07, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's not such a big deal. It's just that I myself have clicked such links and kept wondering why I wasn't seeing the specific year which led me to the place, so it *is* confusing. If we are going to do that on-mass, there should be some sort of textual explanation on the Pre-1954 page that those years might not specifically be discussed at all. It's one thing to click a birth year for a celeb and see only Muppet events and not that person's birth date (that's how it should be, I think, for our purposes anyway), but it's quite another to click that link and not find the year at all. Personally, I'd be in favor of deleting and unlinking any and all redirects that don't correspond to actual years; at whatever point we find that so and so Muppet performer was born in this year, they can always be re-added. Though in fact, what birth years are prioritized or not is a bit subjective, and probably worth a discussion of its own. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 05:12, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah the whole issue with celeb births was something I asked about in passing some time back on Danny's talk. The same thing happened essentially; I was confused being that a lot of the dates I would link wouldn't reflect anything about the people who's pages were being linked. The priority of the information on the calendar is a bit subjective, but I'm not fighting the "keep it limited to important info" policy on that. I wouldn't want to go as far as deleting the redirects and all that (it'd put a lot of holes in the calendar, and that goes back to my earlier theory on where the important dates are housed), but I definitely agree that the Pre-1954 page could use a better explanation of its true intended purpose. If you want to helm that go for it, if not I'll add after I finish watching "Walk the Line" :) --Cantus Rock 05:26, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure how it leaves holes if they're *already* holes in the calendar; in case you missed my meaning, I'm talking about removing misleading redirects years like 1935, which aren't covered at all, not years that are there like, say, 1951. And I don't want to get into adding celebrity birth years, it would overwhelm everything else and it's obvious. However, we never really decided on everyone else, though. If Eren Ozker's birth year gets mentioned, why not Michelan Sisti? And what about cast members like Will Lee, or someone like Bernie Brillstein? Actually, chances are the omission is just because the person(s) doing the most work on the pre-1954 stuff just didn't think of them.
 * I think cast members with speaking parts should have their birth years listed on the timeline. So yes to everyone we call a "Muppet Performer", no to people we list as "Muppet Puppeteer". And yes to Will Lee, Gerry Parkes, etc. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 12:45, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

PotUSA
We have another one: Gerald R. Ford — <font color="Blue">Scott (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 01:24, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yay! And though we somehow overlooked it all this time, Shirley Chisholm offered an endorsement on The Year of Roosevelt Franklin (and later became the subject of a documentary by former kid Shola Lynch). And I need to get a screengrab of the Clinton and Reagan impersonators (not to mention Clint Eastwood and Queen Elizabeth) in Muppets Tonight Episode 103: Billy Crystal. And there's even a few references to failed candidates: Socks the Cat referencing Bob Dole, Johnny Fiama not believing that Sal voted for Dukakis, and of course, H. Ross Perot. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 01:31, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Muppet Magazine
Are you sure that Frederick R. Newman is the same Fred Newman? — <font color="Blue">Scott (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 22:59, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes. First, you'd already created a Frederick R. Newman redirect, based on his name as billed in the Wonder Woman redirect. Secondly, his book Mouthsounds was published in several older reditions under the name "Frederick R. Newman." There's the fact that he worked with Mark Saltzman on the Muppet Show on Tour (and we know *that* from Nate's playbill which included a photo as well as bio as proof), and Saltzman worked on Muppet Magazine, which further suggested the likelihood. And finally, here's a passage from the presskit bio for Doug's First Movie: "He served as a consultant for the Children's Television Workshop and for Jim Henson Productions, and wrote a Muppets musical that toured internationally." All in all, if it turns out another Frederick R. Newman was doing writing and serving as consulting editor on Muppet projects at the same time, I'd be pretty darned surprised. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 23:07, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh yeah. I forgot about the Wonder Woman book connection. Now I remember researching it at the time -- I must have misplaced my brain today. — <font color="Blue">Scott (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 23:22, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah. Oh, and in case you're wondering who Dean Yeagle is, here's his website. He's done a ton of animation stuff, from Cap'n O.G. Readmore and The Bolo Caper to Ice Age. In the Muppet realm, his other big credit is The Muppets Take Manhattan (Comic Book); I need to resize and upload the covers to that, which I yanked from e-bay listings. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 23:26, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Whoah. Holy pin-ups, Batman. Actually, I'm familiar with his work, but I never made the name connection. That makes three connections to Playboy magazine. — <font color="Blue">Scott (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 23:45, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, he's pretty well known. I was surprised when I first found out he did Playboy pin-ups (rather innocent and whimsical pin-ups, all things considered, but still). Is there a direct Playboy reference or spoof anywhere? It seems likely there would be. When either of us gets around to it, we can add Dear Abby; the comparison of Piggy's magazine advice column backs up the verbal reference in The Great Muppet Caper, when Fozzie is asked which paper he'd read: "I'd pick the one with 'Dear Abby.'" -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 23:52, 1 November 2006 (UTC)