User:Aleal/Talk Archive 19

Archive of Andrew's talk page.

Note from the Underground
Nice Labyrinth book and record cover! I didn't even know you had found that! -- Ken (talk ) 04:33, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

International Radio Mentions
Hi Andrew, I was wondering if it is ok to create a page for "International minor radio mentions". The reason for the page is that a Danish radio talkshow, that airs every Sunday, uses the Muppet Show Theme from The Muppet Show (album) after he has introduced the show, but before he introduces the guest on the talkshow. And to make sure that theres some content on it, I can add that the same station a few years ago dedicated 30 mintues to the Muppets and add some info about the campaign to bring back Fragglerne on television. Henrik ( talk ) 08:21, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi, Henrik! Mentions is one thing we usually *don't* divide by country (see Der Wixxer, Bernie und Ert, etc). Since we have a Radio Mentions category which is pretty slim right now, I'd say just create a single page for either the talk show or the station (whichever makes most sense as far as details) and put it in the aforementioned category. That's my thought, anyway. This is another case where you might want to do a sandbox page first, but in general, for now, I think it would be fine to just create a page for the relevant mentions, and later on, if more minor examples crop up (using The Muppet Show Theme on a regular basis is a bit more interesting than, say, citing a show where someone once mentioned Miss Piggy in passing), we can merge the pages. -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 16:11, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

The Shield
When you get a chance, can you look at Warner Bro(ther)s Records? The logo is way too big, and it's running into the cover pictures. It's also a png, and not a jpg, and I didn't know if that had anything to do with it. Can you shrink it a little bit? Every time I see it, I start to hear the WB cartoon theme in my head! -- Ken (talk ) 06:52, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Frankly, I don't think we need the logo anyway, since it's not accurate for the time period, looks like any other WB logo, and the page has enough illustration, but I shrunk it so it's out of the way, tucked in the corner. -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 05:46, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I know it's not the accurate logo. I want to find something else down the road, but I figured we could leave it there for now, since all the other pages have logos (although I'd love to find Nipper and replace that RCA lightning bolt logo).  I'll be looking into all that soon.  Thanks! -- Ken  (talk ) 21:20, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

What ho!
I was looking at some British stuff, and I was wondering. Shouldn't Queen Elizabeth II get a page? I remember an old newsletter where the Muppet performers either met her or performed for her. Or would that not count? -- Ken (talk ) 04:31, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * She can and she will. I just haven't got around to creating it yet. -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 05:06, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, cool! You know, I never knew what the whole difference was between calling it the UK, and England, and Great Britain.  I love this place! -- Ken  (talk ) 05:17, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Columbia Records
Pretty cool, huh? -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 06:31, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Nice! I approve. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 07:18, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Sponsorships
Aleal: Actually, I used the 'logic' that I remember from Sesame Street when I watched it during the late 1970's. As seen on this Web site, there were two episodes back-to-back that were sponsored by the letters 'V' and 'W' and by the number '5.'  Each Sesame Street episode consisted of one 'new' letter, one 'old' letter (from the previous episode), and one number. Thus, since each episode's number was one higher than that of the previous episode's number (exception: '12' followed by '2'), and since the 'old' and 'new' letter patterns were such that the 'W' in the 'V W 5' episode was 'old' and the 'G' in the 'G K 7' episode was 'new,' the 'V' from 'V W 5' would become 'old' in the next episode - the same episode in which 'K' was 'new.' 'K,' of course, would become 'old' in the episode following the one I fixed - namely 'G K 7.'  So, in sum, while I might not 'photographically' remember the credits on all of the episodes, I do remember the pattern in general that was employed by Sesame Street in how they introduced letters and numbers to their audiences. However, if the 'logic' doesn't apply in this particular instance, and you have an actual tape or video as evidence, please feel free to change it back - no hard feelings, I hope. Thanks for mentioning this. Also, on another note, do you have any old Sesame Street clips that can be posted to YouTube? I'm really 'itching' for some I remember from the 1970's, including a man (live-action) being sent on a mission to find a 20, and who eventually runs into a gorilla at the end. Others include the gymnast from the 1970's ('between' has peen posted, but there were five others featuring her), a series of 'beginning-end' live-action clips, the scuba diver (especially the 'five shells' and 'away from' clips), a cartoon with a football player and the letter 'f,' a hip song about mail delivery (live-action), and kids dancing and being interrupted by someone saying 'stop' (live-action). Would you have any of the above? Just wondering. <font color="Blue">Jon (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 06:12, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I'm afraid we don't use logic when we don't have access to the episodes and print materials in the CTW archives specifically mention other sponsors; the latter trumps memories and logic unless actual episode footage emerges to prove otherwise. And sorry, I don't have any of the clips you mention. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 10:50, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

The Incredible Shrinking CD's
Hi! Can you do me a favor? When you get a chance, can you look at the 4 new Koch CD's at the end of the Sesame Street Discography? Kyle put the covers up, but they're not the same size as the rest of the covers on the big chart, and on each of their pages, they're smaller than their Sony editions. I'd tell Kyle myself, but I have no idea if he needs to scan them again, or if they can be enlarged. I think I'm going to have you teach me how to scan stuff and mess with images when I get there! Thanks for all of your help! -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 03:32, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi, I'm not sure I understand the problem. They're exactly 150 by 150, the size we use on the chart. I centered them a little better. For the pages themselves, a bigger image would be nice, but I don't see how it harms the chart. Kyle obviously didn't scan the covers (he may not even own the CDs), but used what he found online, which is often thumbnails. Any attempt at enlarging these would just look ugly and grainy. They wouldn't look that hot on the actual CD pages (they haven't been added to them yet) and someone with the CD would need to personally scan a new version (or try to find better versions online), but in a chart or a gallery, they're fine as is. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 03:42, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * That's weird. This morning, they were really off on the big chart, and on each page, they were really small compared to the Sonys.  Did somebody take them down?  I can't tell right now, because things are so slow, it takes forever to do anything.  I'll have to ask Kyle where he got them.  I'll check as soon as I can, or I'll probably just wait 2 weeks.  Right now, I'm seeing through a glass darkly, but the end is near! -- <font color="Blue">Ken  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 04:36, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it's because earlier, Kyle had them framed, and Danny fixed it soon after. The source images are smaller, but they're not being used on any page other than the chart. And yay for seeing through a glass clearly! Or better yet, not even needing the glass! -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 04:43, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah -- Kyle made a mistake with the way he put them on the chart. I saw it this morning, and I fixed it. Three cheers for wikis! -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 04:47, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

New Time Radio
Hi! Good job on reorganizing all the radio and TV networks. I've never really looked through all of that before, and you reminded me of something. When you mentioned a CBS News radio program about the Muppets, I wasn't sure if you were just making up a hypothetical example, or if you were referring to a real show. The reason I'm bringing this up is that I dimly remember seeing some kind of listing for a radio interview Jim did, but I can't remember who did it or when it would have aired. I think my college library might have a copy of whatever I'm thinking of, or maybe a book about it. I just wanted to run it by you. Have you ever run across any references to radio interviews Jim did? Thanks! -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 02:13, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Welcome back! Well, after messing around with the Library of Congress and other websites, I found a listing for a cassette from CBS News, with a Johnny Carson interview on one side, and a Jim Henson interview on the other. It's from 1979, but it's not a soundtrack from the 60 Minutes piece, since it's a female reporter. So I just wanted to mention that to you. See you later! -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 03:26, 23 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for looking into it! And no, I wasn't thinking of anything specific, but one or two old articles mention radio interviews and such, and I know there was radio coverage when he died. In general, it's much harder to hunt down radio news stuff from that middle period, long after the death of old-time radio but before the advent of NPR as a major force and things like online archives of broadcasts and so on, and since many of these were regional, university libraries and such are the best way to find the things, so I'm sure there's stuff out there. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 03:29, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Bad Andy
What's your thoughts on creating a page for a plush doll made of Bad Andy? Should I? Or should I just stick the picture and footnote on the Andy page. -- ''<font color="Purple">Nate (<font color="Purple" size="1">talk ) 00:29, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd say picture and footnote, since we have no category for commercial character merchandise, and unlike Wilkins and Wontkins, he was commissioned and the initial concept conceived by an outside ad agency. It's neat that it exists, though. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 00:37, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Keeping it all together
Good evening, A.J.! It seems that we have 2 different songs called "All Together Now". One is from Sesame Street, and the other was a new song written for Follow That Bird. How do you make a disambiguation page? Is that something I can do, or is it an admin thing? Thanks! -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 05:41, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Personally, as far as I can tell, "All Together Now" was only heard over the radio at some point in the movie, and on the soundtrack album, so I wouldn't even bother with it myself. But if you really want to, then name the page accordingly: All Together Now (Follow That Bird) and so on (I think someone has it disimbiguated by the band). Then move the first "All Together Now" to "All Together Now (Sesame Street)". Then to create a disambiguation page, borrow the code and format on pages like Dorothy (disambiguation). Like I said, though, for a song performed by a band which was nothing but background sound in the movie and on the album had nothing at all to do with the Muppet portions, and with nothing much to say about it beyond who composed it and that can go on the album page, I wouldn't personally bother. But that's me. It's one of those that will never be an interesting article. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 05:59, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh. Okay.  Well, it was just that Wendy found a radio station EP from the movie last night, and in the process of linking it back to the album, and seeing what linked where, I discovered the other song.  I understand what you're saying about it not being an interesting page, but for now I just wanted to make sure both songs go to the right places.  I've never really looked at FTB songs yet, and I haven't even seen the movie or played the record in a long time, but I'll see what I can do when I start to go through them.  Thanks! -- <font color="Blue">Ken  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 06:38, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, I moved a couple of things around, so see what you think. My personal opinion is that we should still name each page after each band, but I'm okay with keeping the Beatles song as the main page with no parenthetical note in the page name.  I'm confused, though, what you meant when you mentioned that if we make the Beatles song the main page, we should treat the other as a disambiguation.  I thought a disambiguation was the page where you split off two songs with the same title.  If you just meant a "See also" on both pages to refer to each other's song, that's okay, too.  I have no idea why I'm spending so much time on this, when I have no idea how either song goes! -- <font color="Blue">Ken  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 18:24, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You haven't looked around enough at disambiguation pages. In a case where one title is clearly the most important one and the one people look for, we don't move articles, we create a disambiguation page ala Dorothy (disambiguation). And clearly the Beatles song is more important than less than 30 seconds of car radio music only used as background noise and only heard in full on the album. See this discussion, Talk:Mimi, and others which explain that general principle. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 19:20, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

McDonald's
Before I undo your edit, I thought I'd run it by you. The Category of McDonald's has more then just the marketing tie ins included. There are also articles there for Ronald McDonald, McDonald's itself, and the McDonald's Thanksgiving Parade. So shouldn't The Ronald McDonald All-Star Party stay in the category as well? To me it's relevant. -- ''<font color="Purple">Nate (<font color="Purple" size="1">talk ) 17:52, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I still don't think it fits, to be honest. I linked to McDonald's within the article, but aside from Ronald, it really had nothing to do with the fast food chain. The parade is sponsored by McDonald's and advertises for it, and the company itself always belongs in these categories. If you feel strongly about it, put it in, but I honestly think it makes more sense as a see also if you need to connect the category and album, not least because it was one of several K-Tel albums which involved Ronald McDonald and, aside from licensing the character, had absolutely no connection, promotion, or sales tie-ins with McDonald's, and just used Ronald as a host because of his familiarity; he doesn't even mention hamburgers! (I had the album myself, and also another Ronald party record with weird moments like "Mr. Slow" and a strangesoft rock version of "Baa Baa Black Sheep"). Including Ronald McDonald himself in the category makes sense to me. Including the album doesn't, and it's inclusion in the category strikes me as misleading, since you have to read the actual article to discover that this was not sold or given away or otherwise promoted by McDonald's, which is the case with the other items therein. It's a K-Tel thing far more than it is a McDonald's thing in any way. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 18:16, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll go along with that. But I still don't agree 100% ;)  -- ''<font color="Purple">Nate  (<font color="Purple" size="1">talk ) 20:15, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Like I said, make it a see also. If you knew nothing about the item and saw it in a McDonalds category under "Marketing Tie-Ins" with Happy Meal toys and videos you could buy there, wouldn't you assume it was either made by or sold at or in some way directly involved McDonald's (and not just Ronald)? -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 20:20, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay. I made a see also. Ignore me.  I think I have PMS today.  :) -- ''<font color="Purple">Nate  (<font color="Purple" size="1">talk ) 20:51, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi!
Congratulations on crossing 19,000! -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 03:28, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Mindscape
Thanks for cleaning that up.. I was wondering how to deal with the category issue.. It suits better like you did it with the list. Can you also look to the abrete sesamo card games please.. The picture doesn't go smaller.. I dont know if it is my computer or the code I enteredPino 23:23, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure, I'll take a look at that later on. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 23:26, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Sing a Song of Cows
Hi! What's your source on the song being "I'm Proud to be a Cow"? The sheet music doesn't have the "I'm". -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 20:06, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * ASCAP database (and also used on all album and video releases). "Proud to Be" is listed as an alternative, and we always redirect when there's a duplicate, and the duplicate clearly isn't the primary title. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 20:24, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, okay, thanks! I didn't even know there was an album with that song!  I was trying to create pages for all of the SS songbook songs, and "What Links Here" didn't show anything, so I created it.  I'm glad you spliced everything together! -- <font color="Blue">Ken  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 23:12, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

CBS PS
I know you took the talk box off already, but I added a note to the Columbia discussion. I think between the Wikipedia and official company links, that seems to be the best solution. Thanks! -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 19:28, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Ally Sheedy
Hey, before I dig through stuff, do you know what Ally Sheedy did in Muppet Magazine? Do you have the article she was in? I'm remembering her from the teen movies she did in the 80's, and I don't think that would have been Muppet Magazine's audience, since they were nearly all R and PG-13. I'll see what I can find. -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 18:59, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * She's interviewed in Muppet Magazine issue 15 (along with Mitch Gaylord in his second magazine appearance). From the date, I'm guessing it probably promotes Short Circuit, which was PG and definitely had kid appeal. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 19:02, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I just ran through IMDB, and that was the only thing in that period that would have had a kid audience. I'll pull it when I get home.  Thanks! -- <font color="Blue">Ken  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 19:04, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I've got my scan of that issue right here. It's a straight out of tiger beat interview with a headshot of the actors and actresses, a brief bio, and the question "Favorite Movie Memory" answered.  They interviewed Lucy Deakins and Jay Underwood from The Boy Who Could Fly, Mitch Gaylord for American Anthem, Leaf Phoenix for SpaceCamp, and Ally Sheedy for Short Circuit. I suppose pages can be created for all of them on the technicality that Janice interviewed them, but should we?  -- ''<font color="Purple">Nate  (<font color="Purple" size="1">talk ) 19:57, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't see why not, if they were interviewed; we include Faye Dunaway when her "lookalike shot" was just the same standard photo, no comparison, as submitted by Miss Piggy after the editors selected a "Frances Bacon." Definitely Sheedy, since she's mentioned on the cover (it is a shame we don't get a Muppet posing with her, though), but I'd say use the same rule we do for most things on the Wiki: if you'd enjoy adding them or just feel like the Wiki cries out for fresh blood to push the numbers up, make pages for them. If not, don't (but they should be mentioned on the page for that issue, which could use fleshing out in general). Leaf Phoenix, now Joaquin Phoenix, could be fun too if you feel like it, especially since he's had two Oscar nominations as an adult and is the only one in the group who is currently a genuine movie star in leading roles, and he played Johnny Cash (and it amuses me when we can link one person to the Muppets who impersonated another person linked to the Muppets). Also, if you can check who had the "as told to" writing credit for that piece (usually included; if not, it generally means the main editor wrote it), since I've been trying to track down info on the shadowy gnomes who worked on the magazine. David Granger wrote Rowlf's column and is now a muckety muck at Esquire, which I think is pretty neat. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 20:07, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

They'd just go in as Muppet Magazine Guests right? And not in the Celebrity category? And the article was "told to" Betsy Loredo. -- ''<font color="Purple">Nate (<font color="Purple" size="1">talk ) 20:14, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks! And usually they go in both, unless one's hard-pressed to consider the person a celebrity; this applies to folks like Richard Bassett and Mark Mangini, and that sounds like the case for Deakins (definitely) and Underwood (probably) if you feel like adding them, but not Sheedy or Phoenix, who are genuine celebrities (even if Sheedy's star faded more than somewhat post-1980s). It would be better with photos, since we all know the interviews tend to be mostly fictionalized or answered by press flacks, but even without it, I think it's probably fair to treat them the same way we do other magazine guests. It's a question I'll raise in a few days, though, which you'll probably want to pay attention to, on the Celebrities category and defining it. Not so much in terms of fame, which is relative but for those there right now, in general a credible claim can be made for all of them, either famous when they worked with the Muppets or billed with terms like "Special Guest Appearance" and so on, or famous within a considerable sphere, as with the classical musicians, but Muppet interaction. Obviously there's cases outside of that which always merit inclusion (behind the scenes stuff like voices for pertinent Muppets, creatures, or cartoon characters; writing, directing, producing; contributing recipes to Miss Piggy's book; Creature Shop stars, etc.) But then there's gray areas, like with all-star specials such as The Earth Day Special where a lot of celebs appeared but none interacted with the Muppets in it, or Paul McCartney. Ringo Starr is definitely relevant since he talked to Kermit and Pepe; McCartney performed at an event which included Kermit, and for part of the finale, Tom Jones stood behind him with Kermit on his shoulder, so you can see Kermit's foot in some shots. Does he deserve his own page based on that? That kind of thing (we do tend to give a pass to celebs in situations like that *if* they were also spoofed or referenced by the Muppets, so it's not like it's their only connection). -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 20:40, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Sorry!
I didn't mean to get in your way. It sounded like all they had was 2 albums, but now that you put "including" in there, it reads better. Thanks! -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 04:22, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it was an omission on my part, which I thought I'd already written. Thanks for catching it. I just prefer to list highlights of an article when possible, so people have more of an incentive to read the article and not just the "Today" entry (less of an issue with gallery pages or those with unusual or amusing images). -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 04:39, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

The CD's are here!
Hey, can you mention the new CD's on "Today on" sometime in the next few days? Do you want me to put it on the nomination page? Let me know! I'm already having fun changing all the relevant pages! Thanks! -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 03:59, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, please nominate them! I don't know what page if any mentions them (did you start a page for the company yet?) And really, we need more nominations in general, so if there's any interesting page (old or recent) which hasn't been featured yet (take a look at "What Links Here" to check), add it! There's not very many there now, though I added a few, and some of the present nominations are too short or dry or vague to write much about for the Today box. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 04:02, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I think Scott started the page for Koch Records when he found the press release. I went ahead and updated the page to mention all 4 albums.  Oh, by the way, can you take a look at it?  There's a footnote number and I think it's in the wrong place, but I was afraid to mess with it, especially since things are being really slow tonight.  (But the end is near!)  Thanks! -- <font color="Blue">Ken  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 04:58, 5 March 2008 (UTC)