User talk:MuppetDude

Research Errors
Tony, thanks for catching Frank the Square. Further research shows that in fact the sentence should have been 31 year old daughters. :) (I'm not sure how long "Frank and Northern" will survive anyway, it just amused me at that moment to add them to the Wiki, and really it's actually less arbitrary than "Purple Lothar" and the like). -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 16:17, 9 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, I don't mind those characters being there, but the comment would have been a bit too obscure for non-TPers, so I removed it. But thanks for the link--it puts the whole thing in perspective...but how do we know that's their names?


 * Now I won't be able to sleep tonight. -- MuppetDude 16:25, 9 May 2006 (UTC)


 * They have no names, really, anymore than Purple Lothar (which still puzzles me) or Hippie Grump. Feel free to move them to the more objective Hipster and Square if you like, of course. As for obscure comments, isn't that what the Wiki is all about? Though it would have been better had it come from Gerald S. Lesser, certainly. Andrew Leal (talk ) 16:28, 9 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Indeed. I think it would be better to label them as the "Shapes Square" and "Shapes Hipster", but I don't know how to do that. By the way, feel free to use this for more obscurity (and if you've got any questions, just ask me--I helped him compile much of it before Muppet Wiki came along. Now I've got a new list to worry about!). -- MuppetDude 16:31, 9 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, why is there a Purple Lothar? Lothar is purple. I'm going to combine those. -- Danny (talk ) 16:34, 9 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Wait a minute--in the pictures of that version he's blue. However, from what I've seen on The Muppet Show the puppet was covered in purple fabric that's more fuzzy, and was given different eyes. -- MuppetDude 16:36, 9 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I think he only looks blue because those pictures are taken from an old videotape copy, and the colors are a little messed up. If he's really a different puppet, I think that could be noted on the Lothar page. I don't see the point to making them into two different characters just because he got rebuilt slightly differently. -- Danny (talk ) 16:43, 9 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree. And here is one clear picture (on your website!) depicting him as a blue character. -- MuppetDude 16:44, 9 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, good point. I forgot about that picture. -- Danny (talk ) 16:48, 9 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I think in general it would be a good idea for us to combine those kinds of pages. We don't make a different Miss Piggy page every time there's a new version of the puppet. I think when Frackles and other background types get redesigned, we should have one page for the character, instead of two or three. There's usually only a few sentences on each of those pages anyway, they could easily be combined. -- Danny (talk ) 17:05, 9 May 2006 (UTC)


 * What about when they have a new name and identity? I've been puzzling over that a bit. Initially, I leaned towards seperate pages, so we have Lyle the Dog, All-Dog Network Announcer, and Colonel Claghound. But then there's all the Muppet Meeting Films characters who when they had names, were seldom consistently so. Maybe it comes down to whether it's a seperate production and how large the role is? The Meeting Films characters are by nature transient in names and roles, but on the other hand, it's kinda neet to see when Lyle or the like pop up in other series, or the Fraggle Rock characters recycled as Rude Dude and so on on Mopatop's Shop (on the other hand, The Christmas Turkey being named "Martin" in Christmas Carol doesn't justify a seperate page). So I guess I'm in favor of consolidation unless a name is used heavily and otherwise the character is marked as distinct from the earlier incarnation, or a notable predecessor to the more famous identity (ala Fuzzyface, P. Fenton Cosgrove, and Arnold the Munching Monster). -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 17:11, 9 May 2006 (UTC)


 * It's hard to come up with a single rule for all these different kinds of situations, so I'm not going to try. But in general, I've been on a kick lately to consolidate information, and get rid of some of the teensy articles. We've done a lot of expanding and infodumping, and now I'm trying to work some on improving the quality of the articles that we have. It's kind of annoying for a reader to click on a link, and find exactly the same three sentences that were on the page they just clicked from. So I'm trying to combine those when I see them.
 * If Statler and Waldorf don't get separate pages, then I don't see why background puppets that don't even have consistent names should have three different pages. You know? -- Danny (talk ) 17:19, 9 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I see your point, but the question is how do you divide the difference? In some cases its obvious (All dog Announcer, for example, should be folded into Lyle since it's not even a name or identity, just a label; I like keeping Col. Claghound seperate just because of the name joke and so on, but since the puppet showed up again on Dog City as a different character, I can concede that one too). But should Prince Charming be consolidated into Guy Smiley (as one anonymous user kept trying to do) since while a different character and voice, they not only have the exact same pattern but exact same eyes and hair in most appearances? And actually, as far as seperate pages go, should Philo and Gunge be combined? My hesitation has been this very issue, since Philo has basically vanished while the Gunge puppet has been recycled as multiple food critters on Dinosaurs (with taxidermy eyes), as a Toodlepip on Mopataop, and so on. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 17:24, 9 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I think that Prince Charming and Guy Smiley, though they do look alike, should be kept as different characters since the personalities are different, both have appeared on merchandise despite their differences, and the 1979 SS Character guide has even made them different characters.


 * By the way, the Tootlepip is the Philo puppet. -- MuppetDude 17:27, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Picture captions
Hey Tony -- I like the quotes you've been adding as picture captions! They really help to spice up the pages. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 17:59, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Then I'll add more then! Thanks! -- MuppetDude 18:00, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Vandals
Hi, Tony -- Thanks for spotting the vandals, and helping to clean up! -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 13:23, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
 * No problem.


 * And thank you for uploading those old Sesame guides! Great stuff, this Wiki. -- MuppetDude 13:24, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I know, isn't it lovely? There's surprises every day. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 13:35, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Fat Blue and Harvey
Hey, Tony! I'm not sure I understand your concerns about Harvey Monster. I understand the distinction you're making between Anything Monsters and Anything Muppets, but Harvey clearly uses the Fat Blue head, with no modification (unlike Bennett Snerf, who personally I'm more uncomfortable with, or classing Frazzle as a Pumpkin Anything when the pattern was completely covered in fur or otherwise altered). I thought it was useful in tracing the variations on the pattern. Or is the specific image of Harvey you disagree with? (The Monsters! (LP) cover more explicitely shows the fat blue head). I haven't messed with turning most of the other Anything pattern pages into galleries yet, but I want to make sure we're on the same page, more or less, on such things when I do. My basic approach is, if it's not coated with fur and a clear use of the pattern (like Pointy-headed Green for Hortense Monster), it's worth including for comparison (on the other hand, I don't think it would be at all useful to showcase Frazzle alongside Sully and so forth). --Andrew, Aleal 21:23, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Harvey's head isn't quite the same as the fat blue AMs; while it's the same shape, the monster puppet has a larger mouth and jaw. That's why I removed it from the list. But if it's for variations of the pattern, then I'm up for it. Maybe it would be benefitial to mention the Anything Monster pattern being based on it? -- MuppetDude 17:42, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Performer Reverts
Hey, Tony! Thanks for helping clear up some Sesame stuff, and especially the international Muppets (I'm still amused by how they got away with Federico Fellini on Plaza Sesamo). As you may have noticed, you and Dean have been back and forthing on character performers quite a lot lately (All-Dog Network Announcer being the latest example), and though the talk boxes seem to be helping, it still concerns me. Any thoughts on how to best deal with this, or a way for you guys (and for that matter, anyone else concerned in such reverts) to better communicate and reach, if not a full agreement, at least a compromise? --Andrew, Aleal 18:07, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I was sure that Federico Felini was his name; that's what it said in the credits. But then I found [this].
 * As for voices, how about a "Name That Performer" section? -- MuppetDude 20:05, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * If the credits said Fellini, I'd go with that, though we can always make a redirect. I admit in my own research and film writing, I prioritize screen credits unless they are contradicted by known confirmable facts, or with character names, if a more precise appellation is available within the context of the film. The PBS schedules are incredibly useful for plot and date info, but especially given that it's likely a translation from a Spanish presskit or whatnot, "Pelini" may be a typo. As for the other, Name that Performer had occurred to me, we'll see what Dean says. To be honest, while we try to be accurate, total accuracy isn't always possible, and quite a lot of the performer info is played by ear, though discussion and insider info helps (as re our conversation over Kippi). So my concern is to either list the most likely possibility at the present time, or at least just stop back and forthing. --Andrew, Aleal 20:12, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Whoops; I meant closed captioning, not the credits. Sorry for the mix-up. -- MuppetDude 20:13, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah! Hmmm. Close captioning is just as fallible or even moreso than press listings. Well, I'll let you decide. Maybe a note on the sources for both names, unless listening to the episodes again suggests which letter it's closest to. I mean "efe" and "pe" aren't exactly close to each other, verdad? (Ah, Plaza Sesamo discussions always make me homesick). --Andrew, Aleal 20:16, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

We're casual
Hi Tony -- I just took out your comment about Rollie K on the Name That Puppet page... I'm hoping that she'll get a user name and start posting here, so I want us to be cool about it for now and not draw a lot of attention to her. Vard is also a former Henson builder, and I think he probably told her about the wiki. -- Danny Toughpigs 21:36, 1 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I recognized my slip-up after I made it, but I didn't get to change it in time; sorry about that. I'll delete it if it's still there. -- MuppetDude 15:48, 2 March 2006 (UTC)


 * No, it's cool. I got it. -- Danny Toughpigs 16:01, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Sloth Performer
Hey, Tony. Just a heads up that Sloth is currently in time out, as you and Dean have been reverting each other regarding who performed the character. You might want to check out the talk page and discuss your sources for Frank Oz. --Andrew, Aleal 22:30, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Talk page signatures
Hey Tony: I saw you posting on the Rechov Sumsum talk page, and I realized that I didn't tell you the trick of talk pages. You make the signature by adding four tildes, like this: ~. That automatically creates your signature and a date stamp. Also, when you're replying to somebody, you can put a : in front of your reply, and that makes an indent. There's more on How to use Talk pages. Let me know if you have any questions! -- Danny Toughpigs 01:03, 26 January 2006 (UTC)


 * So this is right?--MuppetDude 17:32, 27 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, perfect! -- Danny Toughpigs 17:33, 27 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks again for the help!--MuppetDude 17:34, 27 January 2006 (UTC)


 * No problem, I'm glad you're here. -- Danny Toughpigs 18:05, 27 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I just added the list for SS show 666, using Guillermo's technique. I'll be adding more soon.--MuppetDude 18:07, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Hi Tony!
Hey, there you are, all signed in and everything. Welcome! I put you on the Community portal page as Tony M... If you want to add your last name or your real last initial, then please do. I just put in M for MuppetDude, cause I don't know your last name.

I saw you were struggling with the performer box on the Robbie Sinclair page, so I made a new template for characters with three performers. I've been meaning to do that for a couple days, but I forgot about it. So I fixed the Robbie Sinclair page the way you wanted. Here's the code:. The regular performer box template is just "performer", and for two puppeteers it's "performer2". So now you can go ahead and add more three-person characters if you want! -- Danny Toughpigs 19:22, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * My last name is Whitaker. -- Tony MuppetDude


 * Cool, thanks -- I'll put that up! -- Danny Toughpigs 19:33, 24 January 2006 (UTC)