User talk:Garrettk41

Talk pages
Garrett, don't edit the comments made by other people on talk pages. This was a comment left by Andrew, and nobody has the right to edits his words but him. 15:36, 5 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Ordinarilly, I'd agree, and I certainly wouldn't do that on a regular basis, but I interpreted the first part of his remark as kind of rude. I know it's not really my call, but I know that Wiki does not promote unpleasant remarks, and if a casual user wrote that, they'd probably be blocked. Again, I wasn't trying to cause any trouble, just to soften the comment a bit. I won't keep doing it. Garrettk41 17:17, 5 June 2009 (UTC)


 * We don't block casual users for that (we discuss it first, and in that case it was in response to Nick's saying "This is incredibly stupid" if you'd read the whole conversation), and it's from three years ago. You don't need to go dig up old discussions and fix them, Garrett, regardless. I know you meant well, but even any heated discussions (and that wasn't one of them) from years ago were usually resolved on other talk pages or in e-mail and there's no point in changing the record. Really, you shouldn't be changing anything in years old discussions, even typos or the like. -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 17:46, 5 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I was hoping you wouldn't notice that edit I made. Well, I did notice that Nick said in advance that it was rather stupid, which seemed enough. I admit though, I took no notice of when it was written. Oh well. It's reverted back to the original way now. Garrettk41 23:10, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Reliable Sources
Hi, Garrett! I responded to your Nelson comic, which I hope doesn't come off as harsh. However, I just wanted to point out our policy section on sources. It takes practice, but since I've seen it cropping up often in your comments, where you seem confused as to why one source is accepted and another (especially IMDb) rejected, it could help. Essentially, Wikipedia, IMDb, fan websites, and message forums are all unreliable sources, as a rule. They don't cite what their sources are generally and can be full of misinformation; in an instance where one of those (or a similar website) does clearly cite its source (an interview, a newspaper article, presskit, etc.) or where the information can be matched up with screen credits, then that specific bit of information is sourced and can be used. That still doesn't mean every bit of info on the site is sourced. Reliable sources, on the other hand, include official agency resumes (some are uploaded to IMDb's resume section, which is utterly independent and often even contradicts what's in the user added filmography section; others can be found on a person's official siteor the agency's websites), official presskits (from Sesame Workshop, Henson, etc., the "About the Cast" sections often appended to playbills or movie production notes), audio commentary by the participants, interviews with the person in question, most newspaper/magazine articles (tabloids always excluded, others depending on the nature of the periodical and article, but one can usually tell), and so on. This probably seems overwhelming and it takes practice, so don't worry too much about it at first, but I hope this clears up some things a bit, especially why we don't take IMDb's word for things or accept something someone found on a fan site or Muppet Central without a clear indication of where the site/forum got it from (and there usually isn't). That's one reason we've become so strict about citing our sources here, precisely so it's clear where information comes from, or when it's based on vocal recognition, that there's a consensus or no real question about the identification. That's a whole lot of text, but I hope some of it helps, anyway! Thanks! -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 02:22, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I'll try to keep that in mind, Andrew. Garrettk41 03:49, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Patterns
Hi, Garrett! Please read edit summaries when you notice one of your edits has been changed. Super Nanny is not the Pumpkin pattern, as visual comparison shows. That pattern doesn't have a page yet, since it showed up in the 1990s and we don't know what the Workshop calls it. Random users have started pages for it from "Large Orange Live-Hand" to "Large Pumpkin" and so on, but whatever we call it would be a fan term, so in the mean time we leave it be (not every pattern needs a category, especially if we don't know what to call it). Thanks! -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 01:19, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * You're right. I see it now. She does look slightly different from the other Pumpkin Muppets on the page. In fact, it leads me to wonder: what about I.C. Deforrest. I have her on that page as well, but now I think she looks more like an orange live hand as well. Is she? Garrettk41 01:38, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * She isn't. Study the patterns if you're not sure, but the Pumpkin pattern (original fan name: "Tall Orange") is always the same basic shape, with a vertically long head and rod arms (generally). See the picture from the Character Style Guide and the blank Pumpkin puppet on the pattern page. If you're ever not sure about a pattern, feel free to raise a question on the talk page, or otherwise just leave out the template. -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 01:43, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Numbers
Hi, Garrett! Another heads up. In the early years of the Wiki, we agreed it was okay to mix numerical symbols and written numbers. In particular, in phrases like "130 half hours," it looks awkward in full. So if you see a mix, it's okay and generally preferable to leave as is. We use whatever works within the context of the sentence or chart. Thanks! -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 05:08, 5 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree, it does seem a bit awkward. The only reason why I made this particular change is because the number served as the beginning of a sentence. And I was always taught that it's very unprofessional to begin a sentence with digits. Do you still want it back the old way? Garrettk41 19:30, 5 November 2008 (UTC)


 * We do. This is an old issue (I'll find the discussions to add to the policy page at some point) before you were around, and as you know, Muppet Wiki uses formal and informal rules, going by consensus but also what looks best online. In this case, that rule you mention isn't universal. It was also probably assuming you wouldn't be writing about the number of episodes produced, and more likely quoting statistics and so on, or you were being urged to avoid things like "2 days ago, as I walked down the street...." and so on.

Something weird is going on
This has happened to me twice in a row now. I've tried to add clips to a character's miscellaneous page, but both times, the only part that's showed up in the description is the indication that it's available for viewing at Sesamestreet.org. The description of the clip itself doesn't get submitted. And yet, it's still written in on the edit pages. Can anyone tell me just exactly what's up with that? Garrettk41 02:16, 28 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi, Garrett! If you have a technical question, you should post it on Current Events so everybody will see it sooner. -- Ken  (talk ) 03:19, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Ernie and Bert Sketches: Miscellaneous
Garrett, please stop adding entries that are already on the Cookie Monster and Ernie page. Those two pages don't need that kind of double-dipping. --MuppetVJ 00:36, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, you see, the reason why I was adding them is because even though there is indeed a Cookie Monster and Ernie page, while it's in the list of Cookie Monster sketches, it isn't in the list of Ernie and Bert sketches. You can find them in Cookie's menu, but not in Ernie's. Furthermore, there's also a Cookie Monster and Kermit menu that isn't in Kermit's list, and those sketches are included in Kermit's miscellaneous sketches, so what's wrong with doing the same on Ernie's? Garrettk41 00:43, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, I'd mentioned this to you way back in March, Garrett. If you're having trouble finding sketches or think others might, feel free to add them to the appropriate category. Looking around, though, in fact, Cookie Monster and Ernie is already categorized under both Ernie and Bert sketches and Cookie Monster sketches so it's easily found (and generally, if there's doubling, as I mentioned way back about Herry and Monsterpiece Theater and so on, it's better to remove it when you spot it than create more). If you're talking about the menu at the bottom as opposed to the categories, I fail to see an issue since they're all there and it's easy to spot Cookie Monster and Ernie without including it under both Ernie and Cookie. The menu list was just Danny's idea of something that looked nice and a useful tool in addition to the categories, not a replacement for it (dual categorizing is fine, but listing multiple categories under different headings in that menu list is just silly and would be more confusing than helpful). -- Andrew Leal  (talk ) 01:02, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, alright, if you think it does nothing but makes things more confusing, I guess we don't need them under both characters. I just have to ask, though, what about the ones with Cookie and Kermit? I guess it makes sense to put the 'lecture' clips on Kermit's page, but what about the non-lecture ones, such as Cookie's poem on galoshes and the mystery box? Those are on Kermit's Miscellaneous page. Should those get deleted? Garrettk41 01:10, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that was a goof, go ahead and take those out. And to clarify again, Garrett, it *is* under both characters in the category. The list, however, presents all the sketches in a way that they can be read up and down or left to right and it's easy to spot "Cookie and Ernie" under Cookie right below Ernie and Bert (and in general, I'm not so sure how many users actually use it to navigate anyway, but doubling would make it harder, not easier, when it only takes a few more seconds to find what you want anyway just by looking closely). It's intended as an additional aide, not a replacement and not something that needs to be overcomplicated. -- Andrew Leal (talk ) 01:14, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Alright, they're gone. And I have the message now. Garrettk41 01:18, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Spelling
Hey, Garrett! Just so you know, Caroll Spinney is spelled exactly like that. I notice you've been changing it, but that just leads to a redirect page and, when possible, we like to link directly to the page and reflect the accurate spelling. Thanks! -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 22:36, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * By golly, you're right. I didn't even notice that before. Even IMDb confirms that Caroll is the correct spelling. Sorry about that. Thanks for telling me. Garrettk41 22:40, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Muppet Wiki:Images Wanted
Hi Garrett. I'm not sure, but there's probably a good picture of Simon Soundman in one of the videos on sesamestreet.org. —Scott ( talk ) 01:35, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Hey there, Scott. You're probably right. There have to be good pictures of him there. But I don't have the technology to insert them myself. That's why I brought it up. Garrettk41 01:59, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You don't need much in the way of technology. To get pictures from the Sesame site or YouTube, just pause the scene when you get to an image you want, press the "print scrn" button on your keyboard, and then paste into any image program (Microsoft Paint, for example, which comes on all PCs, or there's plenty of simple free ones to download; I use IrfanView). Edit/resize if you can, but regardless, save the image as a JPG and under a simple label (the character name usually works). Then upload it to the Wiki. Simple (though it may take practice to get the hang of it). If you need resizing or editing help, feel free to ask us, but with some of your image requests, other users really have no idea which Sesamestreet.org or YouTube sketch you got your character info from (and often don't feel like searching). It's usually easier, however, for someone else to shrink, crop, or otherwise adjust a basic image. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 02:11, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I just might try that. Garrettk41 02:32, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Ernie and Bert with kids
Thanks for the new pictures, Garrett! -- <font color="Blue">Ken (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 01:05, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * No trouble at all. Garrettk41 02:26, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Page creation
Hi, Garrett! I've noticed you're still uncomfortable about starting articles. There's nothing to it, just go ahead and do it. Parking "we need a page for" requests generally won't get results, but starting a stub often will (don't worry if it's ugly or you have problems with formatting, which if anything is more likely to encourage someone with free time to fix it up, and it's often easier for casual editors to clean up a page if there's at least some basic info to start with, than to create a page they may have neither knowledge nor interest in). If you're really unsure of yourself, feel free to play around in the Sandbox first. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 23:43, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, with all the encouragement I've been getting, I guess I might as well give it a whirl. If only I knew where to begin. Plus, I sort of have this thing where if I add a whole new page myself, it just doesn't seem official, if that's the right word. But, I guess I'll give it a shot. Just tell me how. Thanks, Andrew. Garrettk41 04:57, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi, Garrett! I hope you don't mind if I share a few ideas.  When I first got here, I didn't know a thing about wikis, and I was kind of overwhelmed about where to start.  But I just kind of began by adding information to record pages, and after a while I started noticing ones that I knew were missing, but I only had limited information on them.  For example, on My Record, all I had was the title and record number, taken from the back of other Sesame LP's, but that was it.  But I put up what I had.  Then somebody put up a picture of the cover, and then somebody put up the track listing.  Then we fleshed it out with the songwriters and performers.  That's how it works.  Everybody adds as much or as little as they know, and then other people add to it, and sometimes years could go by, and somebody will find something.  After 2 and a half years, we're still finding record covers.  So I would say find something you're interested in, like a maybe a book or DVD or other item, and start a page for it.  Click on the Help link to start a brand-new page, and the admins will help you if you need to categorize it or change the name of the page.  I hope this helps! -- <font color="Blue">Ken  (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 05:31, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Pageants
Hi, Garrett! For the record, Cookie Monster Sketches: Miscellaneous is only for sketches which aren't classified anywhere else (or otherwise shared with other characters' Miscellaneous pages). The pageants are their own entity and more than one featured Cookie Monster anyway. The only page to do so is Herry Monster, and that should probably be fixed as well, since otherwise every relevant pageant would have to be added to Ernie, Bert, and so on; for the same reason, Masterpiece Theater sketches aren't included on miscellaneous pages, since they all feature Cookie, most feature Grover, many involve Herry, and so on (we make an exception for Sesame Street News Flash because the use of established main Muppets apart from Kermit is fairly uncommon). The template below links to the pageant page, so please don't add it again, and don't forget to read edit summaries to see why something has been changed before reverting it. Thanks! -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 21:43, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh. I see. Actually, I wasn't sure it was necessary myself, but since Herry's miscellaneous page had them...
 * You said that should be taken care of. So I guess you don't want me to insert he remaining pageants he was in onto his page. Shall I get rid of the pageants for you?
 * Thanks for the tip, Andrew. Garrettk41 21:54, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that would help. If it really seems necessary, it would make more sense to double categorize, since the core group in most (but not all) pageants consisted of Ernie, Bert, Cookie, and Herry. But like I said, with the template below for easy navigation to all sketch pages, I don't think it's needed. So no pageants or Monsterpiece Theater, but if you find things like News Flash appearances or the game show sketches, feel free to add those. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 21:58, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I've deleted all the pageants from Herry's page, but not the Monsterpiece Theater segments. Shall I do those too? By the way, just to clarify, I wasn't intending to put individual segments of the latter on Cookie's miscellaneous page. There wouldn't have been any point in that. So shall I delete them from Herry's list? Garrettk41 01:11, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Image Requests
Hi again, Garrett! Once more reminding you, if you see a page without a picture, or feel a better one is needed, mention it on Images Wanted, not the article talk page or a user's talk page. As I've said before, often an image just isn't available, but if it is, that page is the best way of getting one, since in general it's proven effective and is seen by more people than a single talk page (some of our users check it periodically and upload as many as they have at once). You'll also be happy to know I finally found an image of Bob Payne. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 06:36, 7 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Very well, Andrew. Yes, that probably is easier. I've already made two picture requests on that page. Just one thing though. There doesn't seem to be a category for requesting pictures of Muppet performers, and there's at least one more I want to inquire about.


 * I'm glad you found a photo of Bob Payne. And while we're on the subject, regarding his appearance on Mr. Rogers. You said you weren't sure if it was the same guy. Well, it was only one appearance and he was credited as an additional puppeteer. So of course it's the same guy. It just proves why no one actually saw him. Garrettk41 06:18, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * No "of course" about it, since Rogers taped in Pittsburgh, and it seems to have been more than one appearance and not as an "additional puppeteer" (rather, helping out the Browns who ran the puppet theater, so would have been on camera). It's certainly possible, maybe likely, but can't be assumed without seeing the visuals, given the time frame and distance. And the point of Images Wanted is to add requests, so if you don't see a section, feel free to create one. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 07:28, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Talk page tips
Hey, Garrett! I've noticed you've been asking a lot of questions on Scott and Danny's talk page, which really aren't addressed to them or which they can't answer. Here's how it works. If you have a question concerning a specific article, as with Oceanview, Illinois or Anything Muppets, you ask it on the talk page for that article. Requests for images should go in the appropriate slot on Images Wanted. It may take awhile, and in many cases, the images just aren't available (as with Bob Payne, nobody here has ever found a picture of him, since he never appeared on-camera in any documentaries, hasn't been widely interviewed, wasn't an actor, etc.). But if anyone has it, the best way is to list a request on that page (the only time any of us make such requests directly to a user is if he or she uploaded a screengrab from a production featuring the desired character or actor, and thus might be in a position to take other screengrabs). -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 04:50, 29 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I see. I guess I was just trying to become more acquainted with the individual administrators. Oh well. Thanks for letting me know about that, Andrew.Garrettk41 03:37, 30 January 2008 (UTC)


 * There's nothing wrong with becoming more acquainted, but it's not the best way to get questions answered (a better way to get acquainted is just to say hi or comment on an article someone created which really impressed you, we do that all the time). Also, don't forget to use the four tildes to sign your comments. You're getting the hang of this wiki thing in general, though, so don't feel discouraged! -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 04:05, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Talk pages
Once again, you've posted a new topic at the bottom of Danny's talk page, when it should have gone at the top. This is the second time I've reminded you of this rule, which is explicitly stated at the top of every talk page when you click the "edit" link. Please remember this rule from now on. --MuppetVJ 19:18, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh dear. I didn't realize that. Actually, I wasn't even typing the message on that page. I clicked the "Leave Message" tab at the top and wrote it there. At any rate, I thought the most recent messages naturally went to the top of the page. Maybe you'd better tell me what I click on the discussion page to see to it that it comes out on the top. Garrettk41 19:26, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, you can't use "Leave Message." Just choose "edit this page" and manually place the message at the top. Anything else won't work, since the tech is designed with the Wikipedia system in mind. Here, we find it more effective to place all new discussions at the top where they can easily be seen, rather than burying them at the bottom (plus, we archive user talk pages when they get too long, so that's another hazard). Next time you edit any talk page, take a good look at that heading, which appears everywhere, and which Guillermo linked to above. That explains it clearly. -- <font color="Blue">Andrew Leal (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 19:46, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

You did it!
Hey, I see that you added to the Green and Pumpkin pages. Well done; I'm glad you learned how to do that! -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 20:43, 11 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks. It eventually came to me. I've added characters for all of the different patterns except for purple (that's a rare one.). I just scan the list of characters and whenever I find one, I just add em' on in. Garrettk41 05:13, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Talk pages
Hi, Garrett -- I replied to your message on my talk page, but I also want to explain some more about talk pages.

When you post a message on a talk page, please don't use the + sign at the top of the page. Use the "edit this page" tab. Write your message directly under the message that you're replying to, with a : at the beginning of each paragraph, so that your reply indents.

Also, sign your talk page posts with ~. Guillermo just told you that two days ago, and I'm reminding you again. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 15:11, 6 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, right. I got you now. I didn't quite understand Guillermo's message. Actually, I never hit the + key, I just went to your page and left you another message. No matter. I believe I've got it now. Thanks. --GarrettGarrettk41 17:33, 6 January 2008 (UTC)


 * What Danny said. Also, new discussions go at the TOP of the page, not the bottom.  Refer to the box that says "READ THIS FIRST" on Scott's talk page. --MuppetVJ 02:14, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Table formatting
The reason we have the |} is to keep the table closed - otherwise, as you can see, everything that comes after the table data, ends up inside the table. --MuppetVJ 05:43, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I know. I didn't mean to. I was just trying to put a version of the song in its correct place chronologically and somehow that whole table issue ended up happening. I tried to fix it, but I wasn't able to. I'm glad you did. --Garrettk41 12:12, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * No problem. Also, please remember to reply to topics on the talk page they're posted on (not directly to the poster), and end your talk page posts with four tildes ( ~ ). --MuppetVJ 22:35, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Uppercase
Hi. You're capitalizing some oddly random words on various pages. Is there a reason for that? —Scott ( talk ) 05:57, 6 November 2007 (UTC) Bold text

Well, I generally tend to capitalize words that I think are important when they are part of a title. That's why capitalized "Bowl" and "Fruit". Garrettk41 00:44, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Garrettk41 02:34, 30 September 2008 (UTC) Garrettk41 17:41, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Nelson
Hi there -- Do you have a source for Jerry Nelson performing Nelson? We have that character listed as "Unknown Performer" because we're not sure. If you know something about that character, that would be great!

If your clue is the name, then that's not it... The character is named for Nelson Eddy. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 11:58, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi, I've reverted your changes to Nelson as the fan website you've cited can't be used as a reliable source. If you would like to open up the topic for conversation, feel free to do so at the talk page. Also, you might benefit from taking a look around at other pages on the wiki and especially our FAQ to get a feel for how things are done. You've tried to place Nelson in a category that doesn't exist twice now, and I'd like to make sure you're familiar with how wiki markup works. —Scott ( talk ) 01:56, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Welcome!
Hi, welcome to Muppet Wiki! It's good to see you jumping in and adding to pages. My name's Scott, I'm one of the admins here. What's your name?

Please check out the Muppet Wiki FAQ to help you get started. Let me know if there's anything I can help you with!

One helpful tip when using talk pages is to enter four tildes after your text, like this: ~. This will include your username and a timestamp which helps everyone better interact with you. Have fun! —Scott ( talk ) 03:33, 17 April 2007 (UTC)