See Forum:Peter Linz as Robin. The answer is no (and when it's yes, we're still working on the criteria but it hasn't been met yet, admins will make the change).
They definitely cast a lot of this specialty stuff outside the regular pool, either New York session singers or occasionally on or off Broadway people (whoever was in town and available).
Though it's not as obvious as it should be, the Paley Center website has a search engine for its collection. Search by "Jim Henson" or Muppet or whatever. Some write-ups are more detailed than others, but anything in there is in their collection (only available through in-person visits, and not surprisingly they don't seem to be open at the present).
Nope. Without getting too specific, they had already left rotation by the period covered in the source (and it looks like "When You Cooperate" was only used three times anyway).
If it goes down, it goes down, in which case it's so for everyone, but that hasn't really been mentioned. What will happen, as you've seen if you noticed the forums Scott set up, is they'll go back to the way we used to communicate, having to manually type four tildes to leave a signature, colons to separate remarks, etc. (same on user talk pages).
Jon, next time wait to make any changes like that until there's a consensus (from established users whose contributions aren't just on this thread; others aren't familiar with the past conversations and instructions we've had with you on this). Or really start a new thread for the question (again this just gets kind of lost).
Right now, the change you describe doesn't make a lot of sense to me and fits what Scott told you at the *beginning* about just leaving entries blank when not sure what matches from the script.
There have been omissions before, though later ones filled in gaps, Stone definitely directed some of the inserts but probably not all (the source documentation doesn't even list a director for a couple), and of course directors of film or animated inserts weren't usually credited until much later.
Right now, the theory that Stone did the celebrity version only makes sense, but we can't state it outright without confirmation.
Anthony, Scott put it back just because there's no actual casting section and nothing in the text to indicate where Buescher played the part.
With a casting section, I'd be fine with taking it out and maybe simplifying ("from The Muppets (2015) onward" or something, while also noting still the 1996 performance). Right now, it's useful and where the "Casting History" party of the box is directing, in lieu of its own section. Work the info in some other way if you like. But to remove the name and just assume people reading the box will know Buescher played Yolanda in the last four items because no performer is given (and not in any others without a known performer) isn't helpful to my mind.
Also most of the time, if you have an issue with an admin reverting your change, it's better to leave a message on their wall (and then see if it needs wider discussion). This thread was a bit too broadly stated while trying to focus more on specific pages than the larger question, so it keeps drifting. This is also relevant because of the Fandom changes Scott mentioned coming soon (other wikis are already receiving notice), as we'll have talk pages back instead of message walls and have to go back to some manual things, so trying to avoid sprawling threads could be a necessity again.
We have Category:Unnamed Characters for those where the name is just a label coined by fans or for convenience on Muppet Wiki (although a few simple "no name because of an occupation/being an object" ones crept in as well).
Otherwise, the names come from end credits when applicable, dialogue, scripts or character sketches, or merchandising (always specified in cases of the latter two). Sometimes we have to discuss which source to favor over another. For example birds from "Birds in the Trees" were renamed, because the actual script was at the MOMI exhibit and listed individual names.
Checking in briefly before bed. Statler and Waldorf is still a target page, whatever we decide.
But I agree with the proposal. The final change should be made by an admin, precisely to ensure it's done properly (including the "more.")
You can put Peter Linz in the primary performer section of the text here. But leave the box alone, since there's still no consensus on what to do there.
Yeah, we need to discuss and reformat a lot of those pages. I looked at [Big Bird songs]], which I think was the first, and has this text: "A listing of songs sung by Big Bird, including solo, accompanied and prominently featured performances." Jon added that text in 2018, and it feels like we need that on all of the same pages. The options are removal or just make the distinctions for headings that the Big Bird, Oscar, and (in its own way) Elmo song pages do (it may be the same amount of work either way, and headings at least can point other users in the right direction). A lot of the drift seems to have come from Frederic, just because he wasn't around when those pages started (in 2006 and 2007!) and sees gaps. So standardizing text for the pages will help, for both steady editors who joined since then as well as the more casual arrivals.
As for the original question on this thread, in addition to the solos issue, a good litmus test for a character getting a song page is, are the songs overwhelming the character page, or do they fit neatly in? That's the reason for solo song or filmography pages to begin with. Looking at Zoe, the songs section there fits fine (removing it would mean removing pictures) and almost all of them just have her in chorus or ensemble (there's "My Name Is Zoe" for solo and a few key co-singing songs like "Little Miss Count Along").
The current Abby Cadabby page just lists five songs. There's probably more (and some episode one-shot songs don't have pages yet). Updating the existing song lists on character pages works better for now (and then if it becomes too long, breakouts can be discussed). Absolutely no songs are listed on Rosita. I can't think of a lot of solos (not counting YouTube stuff), but a list can be started there first, and as with the others, we can decide whether it needs to be moved later.
That's actually becoming an issue on those pages. At the moment, some of them are full of songs that they *do* just participate in, mostly added since March in edits like this one. I.e. "Do De Rubber Duck" is now there, on Telly songs, etc.
The original purpose of those pages *was* songs which could be said to have been "sung by" as the main or co-vocalist, but it looks like we either need to restate that for users who've joined since that time or follow Oscar the Grouch songs and break-up into accompanied (and include the "just sings a verse in" stuff). Looking through the history, it seems like it happened mostly *because* of songs on Oscar or Big Bird songs under "accompanied," but then added to other pages without any distinctions or "ensemble song" text. It's one of those gradual changes we missed before now. Elmo songs, while just a list rather than a gallery, has the clearest distinctions and headers to distinguish his participation.
The Elmo format actually has advantages. Listing albums distinctly too, since none of the songs from Dinah! I've Got a Song have actual individual pages, none were used anywhere but that album, so it results in the same album cover used up to three times with a redlinked title (even with a gallery, that could be done to make it less repetitive and easier to parse which songs were never actually turned into on-screen Muppet segments).
What's listed as "Z Zip" matches in length this segment (and checking other episodes with that segment confirms they're the same), but the critter has two horns. So someone just goofed slightly in assembling that CTW description.
ETA: Jinx! Overlapped with Tony.
Agreed on celebrity pages. I was thinking of In Development articles, which we maintain anyway, and appearances by Muppets on other shows, where we also have more editors eager to update when they happen. Amphibia listed the Kermit guest star thing in June, with no air date or episode title, and Disney Insider for an episode on Earth to Ned which has no debut date itself (those often use "is planned" anyway in case they don't happen or get shelved). Generally the farther in advance and vaguer the info, future tense is unavoidable.
For talk shows and we know the exact date a week ahead, a more neutral "Elmo appears" works. Since Sesame Street guests can either drop at any time or be held back for later seasons, that's not feasible, but most of the time now, we know where and when on Muppet appearances on talk shows and so on (it's the Disney produced stuff that tends to be most "We're teasing it now but you have to figure out when it will happen.")
Bumping again as both a general reminder and to note another tense issue.
We don't need to mess with "will appear" wording on connections lists. We use that only for Upcoming projects, either guest appearances by Muppet characters or by celebrities in stuff that's been shot but not aired. If it's just a list of guest stars or "so and so has been cast" with no role listed, wait until the episode has aired or movie out (or at least trailer). This is to make sure nothing changes, because it's easy for others to forget to maintain, and because actually being able to have a character and episode (when applicable) just looks better.
So short version, "will appear," "will guest star" etc. should only be used when applied to actual projects Muppet Wiki would cover (most often just on an In Development page), not in connections lists.
Is there a way to change that header link on Yolanda? That's simple if so.
On the other hand, I wouldn't mind just moving the performer names to a casting section. The name in parentheses approach seems to work better for characters who were used a lot in bits but never a consistent performer or even real identity at all (i.e. Luncheon Counter Monster).
One user suddenly signing up just to vote might be coincidence, but two more? I've blocked them.
I'd be fine with the change, but for now, it makes more sense just to count votes by those who have actually edited here (not those whose first edit is voting).
I'm not sure how important it is, but it really wouldn't go on Wilkins and Wontkins anyway, as character pages, but at most Wilkins Coffee. Lots of people make commercials for products or brands they don't personally use or care for, unless there's a strong principal involved or they insist on only promoting things they like and use.
The anecdote in the Jones biography is on page 69 (about his politely drinking Wilkins at events, and also implying this is why Jim performed Wontkins while Jane Henson puppeteered Wilkins). I think a quote from that might be fine on Wilkins Coffee.