Talk: Composers

Composers of covers

The category description says this category is for "Composers, song lyricists, and musical directors." Is this for anyone who has written/composed a song performed in a Muppet production? While most of these individuals have written music specifically for the Muppets or a Muppet production, there are some (such as Dave Grohl, A. A. Milne, Paul Simon, Stan Freberg, and Mozart) whose existing work has simply been covered or reused by the Muppets. If we are including composers of second-hand material, then should we also add Freddie Mercury (Bohemian Rhapsody), Ringo Starr (Octopus' Garden), Katy Perry (Hot and Cold), Elton John (Crocodile Rock), Bruno Mars (Forget You), Billy Joel (Just the Way You Are), etc.? I just want to make sure I understand what qualifies someone to be in here before I go around adding (or removing) any category tags. Thanks. -- Brad D. (talk) 13:03, March 8, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, we've been using the category that way for a long time (and discussed it on other talk pages, just not the category page). The requirement for pre-existing compositions is that either there be a significant number of works utilized (as with the classical folks), at least more than three (I forget what exact number we came up with) or else they already have a page. So anything not included is a combination of omissions (especially since so many of those you list are pretty recent) and other factors, like forgetting to include when a guest performs their own composition. You might also want to ask Scott to weigh in, since this is one of his specialties. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 14:55, March 8, 2012 (UTC)

I agree we should split it up somehow, but I'm not sure of the best way to do it. What about Category:Composers and Category:Covered composers? —Scott (message me) 20:40, March 8, 2012 (UTC)

I think "Covered composers" is sort of clunky. I'd be ok with leaving it as one category in the sense that these are all people who wrote music that has been used on one of the shows. I'm not sure I see the need to split them out by "wrote for the show" and "wrote music used on the show". But if we're going to I'd rather add a category to the Composer category, so Joe Raposo would be a Composer but also a Sesame Street Composer, (and similarly for Muppets, Bear, and Fraggles as needed). -- Wendy (talk) 01:41, March 9, 2012 (UTC)

We have separate categories for those who write for the Muppets and those whose writting has simply been adapted by the Muppets. I think there is a difference here between the work of Joe Raposo, Paul Williams, Bret McKenzie, David Bowie, and Jeff Moss in the Muppet/Henson universe and the connecton to Dave Grohl, James Blunt, Katy Perry, ABBA, and Elton John. -- Brad D. (talk) 13:39, March 9, 2012 (UTC)

Writers aren't really a fair comparison though, since from the beginning the Muppets have performed other people's songs (as opposed to the far fewer occasions where they rework someone else's writing). It's always been more of a main Muppet universe case (compared to Sesame etc.), where "covers" on The Muppet Show far outnumbered "Bein' Green" and other original songs. There's also the fact that we've used "Composers" for both composers and lyricists, so there's that aspect. Plus it's not really accurate to call the use of Beethoven, Mozart etc. "covers." If anything it would be easier to either do by universe or type as Wendy suggests for the original songwriters (but I'd find that problematic since Raposo and Jeff Moss, for example, composed for multiple series/films/"worlds" etc., and several folks would have to be "Film score composers" and so on, like Raymond Scott or Trevor Jones) or "Original composers." I do still kind of feel that any guests who just showed up to perform their own songs (Elton John, Perry) is in kind of a different category anyway. This will require further examination really, since as we can already see it's a complicated issue. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 19:03, March 9, 2012 (UTC)