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I brought this up somewhere on the wiki before, but to repeat, I think it's really silly to have the international titles suffixed with the countries from which they originate. It's a bit condescendingly pretentious, as if to say that the title by itself doesn't merit any worth unless we point out to the uninitiated that it didn't come from the United States -- the extreme result being that we move Sesame Street to Sesame Street (United States).

This is not unlike the situation we had many months ago when the companies for which the Muppets have done commercials were moved to i.e., Wilkins Coffee (1957-1962). The correct way to establish the additional information meant to be provided by what was in parenthesis is to create a list for easy reference, not move the article to an unnecessarily longer title. Since then we've come up with a more standardized way in which we name an article, best proven with our guideline on character names using User:MuppetArchives/Cecil the List and Muppet Wiki:The Prefixed List.

I would suggest that the international Sesame articles be moved back to their titles without the country disambiguation. Thoughts? Are there reasons I'm not seeing for why the current style is being used? — Scott (talk) 02:19, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

No, that sounds good. I originally created the titles with the countries to help us keep track of where the shows came from. It made more sense when we were first starting out, and didn't really have much of a format yet. Now, you're totally right -- we have a much better sense of how to make article titles, and these don't fit the format anymore. Feel free to change 'em. -- Danny (talk) 02:31, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Could we hold off on any changes? I'm wishing I was dead right now,m unable to force myself to churn out blasted pages needed for a deadline in 18 hours, but I'd like to weigh in. I have mixed views, mainly since any ruling would probably need to be consistent with Category:International Fraggle Rock or Category:International Translations. And especially with the Fraggles, I for one can't keep the Fragglene/Fragglarna etc. straight without the parenthetical. I'd definitely at least want seperate lists of "International Sesames by Country" and "International Fraggle Rock by Country" and so on *before* anything's renamed. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 02:37, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Okay, if there are no other objections in a day or so, I'll go ahead and move them. Is there one place better than another to include a list of shows by country, or perhaps we have enough on the wiki by now for an International Sesame Street Productions article? — Scott (talk) 02:41, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Oh, page edit conflict. — Scott (talk) 02:41, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
In response to Andrew, I would say that shows with the same title in another country should still be disambiguated. Also, it would be a good idea to have a template box for international shows so that we can quickly see what country a show comes from. Similar to how you can quickly and easily see the guest star on Muppet Show episodes. — Scott (talk) 02:42, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Oh, and don't forget that there would still be a list of international productions listed by country so you could still easily find them. Basically, we shouldn't have to type in "Rechov Sumsum" and be taken to "Rechov Sumsum (Israel)." But of course I can hold off on any changes until your schoolwork slows down. — Scott (talk) 02:44, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, let's hold off on this discussion for a couple days, out of respect for Andrew's deadline. When he's got his bearings again, we can keep talking about it, and figure out the best way to handle it. -- Danny (talk) 02:46, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
One more paper to go, but otherwise finals done. Anyway, I like International Sesame Street (though it should probably go in Category:International Sesame Street Shows, both to avoid mixing cat/subcat but mostly because that way it's easy to access in reference to the larger list). I especially like the distinction between co-productions and dubs ([[Sesame English], an anamoly as it's wholly produced in the US and just partially dubbed for whatever market, should probably moved). I can see the same kind of thing working for Fraggle Rock. Probably not on Category:International Translations, but that's slowly reaching the point where it could probably benefit from some new organization in general. So go ahead and start renaming if you like. I'm happy with it! -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:08, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
And I see the category thing has been fixed already. Never mind me, I'm worn down by life. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:15, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
I was thinking of placing International Sesame Street in Category:International Sesame Street Shows, but I'd like to see that evolve into an article on International Sesame Street in general. Right now it's just got the briefest of descriptions, but the idea has potential as there's certainly plenty to say. I'll probably tackle it myself after watching The World According to Sesame Street again. Which, by the way, is fantastic and wonderful. — Scott (talk) 05:19, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
Oh, I agree on that. When I get time, I'm planning to do some mining on that myself, especially on some of the crew members and the special Bangladesh non-Muppet puppets. My only minor gripe is that they didn't identify the local puppeteers at any time. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:21, 16 December 2006 (UTC)