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full episodes

Since when are we embedding complete episodes on our pages? Did I miss that discussion? —Scott (contact) 15:47, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

Since March. -- Brad D. (talk) 16:01, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

Performers and Cast

Right now, in Category:Muppets Tonight Episodes and Category:Muppet Show Episodes, each page has a section for performers and a section for cast. The performers section includes each credited performer (and in cases where it can be proven, those uncredited), followed by the character(s) they performed in in the episode. Then the cast section follows and lists all the Muppets seen in the episode. An effort has been made to only link the characters inthe cast section, but it still seems a little redundanct to me. For example, as we go through each episode and add more characters, some folks are adding them to the Performers section, and others to the Cast section, so it's never consistant. I think we should just list the performers credited (and the provable uncredited ones) without the characters and save that list for the Cast section. Each name links to the page where the performer information is kept anyway. Additionally, a list of performers and who they performed is often left incomplete anyway, since there are cases when we never know if they were performing a character whose performer is unknown or disputed. —Scott (talk) 20:49, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I disagree (though I think I added these to the pages, so my vote might not count). I think it is good to list who performed what character. Sure, the character pages might list all cases where certain characters are performed by different people, though I don't think this is done for types of characters like chickens or rats. But I have been thinking about the cast listings for some Sesame Street episode pages lately. For some of the earlier episodes, there are listings for who played who in the whole shows, including inserts, but in more recent episodes, there are listings that only list who played who in the street stories, and not the various inserts. Should we figure out a consistent style for cast/ performer listings for Sesame Street episodes? I did a lot of the cast/ performer/ voice listings for the episodes on Old School: Volume 1 (though somebody already started such a cast listing for Episode 0001 before I listed what I knew about the performers). --Minor muppetz 22:14, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Then, is there a way to do it so that we're not listing characters twice? —Scott (talk) 19:55, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
I've always liked the double listings, as they serve different purposes, but if we absolutely have to consolidate (which I, as of right now, don't support) - then we can list all characters by performer and then have Uncredited and/or Background categories. -- Peter (talk) 22:12, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Episode numbers

Where do the episode numbers come from that are being used in the article titles? The Muppet Show episode articles use their production number, so why not Muppets Tonight? -- Scott Scarecroe 02:15, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

These go by the air dates. We use production numbers for TMS because those episodes aired in a different order all over the country. Muppets Tonight has consistent air dates for both the ABC and Disney Channel episodes. In general, I think air dates are preferable to production numbers -- a lot of series shoot their episodes out of order. The first nine or so Fraggle Rock episodes were shot completely out of order. -- Danny Toughpigs 02:18, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
True, many series shoot out of order, however in this case due to many issues including scheduling concerns, cancelations, and network changes. Both ABC and Disney aired Muppets Tonight out of the intended order. The are many noticeable changes that happend throughout the series such as Statler and Waldorf in then out of the nursing home, the electric surge accross the screen for scene changes, Seymore & Pepe as bellhops then cooks, the lack of anyone guest star, to name a few, stand out as noticeably out of order when viewed in the way they are listed and where not shot "out of sequence" on on purpose. -- Stulz Stulz 19:48, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
I still think air date order is better. This is the order that viewers saw the episodes. I don't think it makes sense to have 103 be Paula Abdul, when everybody was watching at the time remembers that that episode didn't even air during the first season. You may have tapes that have production codes, but I've got tapes from watching the show on ABC while it was happening, and my tapes say that the first three episodes were Michelle Pfeiffer, Garth Brooks and Billy Crystal.
The pages that we have for the episodes already have the production numbers listed, so that part is covered. If you've got access to inside stuff, then it would be great if you could add some more information to those pages. -- Danny Toughpigs 04:08, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
I have two sets of tapes. One from the original airings and the other in the "proper" production order that I posted on the Muppets Tonight discussion page. The series works better in production order. Some of the episodes that didn't air in order were reworked to fit with the other episodes they were aired with such as adding outtakes during the credits, but as a whole: the set changes, character changes, non-guest changes all work better when viewed in production order. I just finished transferring the entire series onto DVD in production order so these episodes are very fresh in my mind. I even went back to my original air date tapes and got the promos and TGIF intros as bonus material for the discs. So I've seen them in both ways and production order is def. the way to go. In one of the original promos Kermit even mentions Paula Abdul as a guest and shows a clip from the episode although it wouldn't eventually be broadcast for a year and a half later. They obviously shot and meant that episode to be with the first season. Even if we disagree on the correct order, the production codes listed are not correct and should be changed to the listing below, which I got from the Henson website way back in 1996 and corresponds to the production codes listed on the title cards before each episode I have from Henson.

Muppets Tonight (1996-present) Episode List

Season Show # Guest Star Appearances By

I 101 Michelle Pfeiffer

I 102 Martin Short

I 103 Paula Abdul

I 104 Billy Crystal Larry King

I 105 Garth Brooks Leonard Nimoy

I 106 John Goodman

I 107 Cindy Crawford Mickey Dolenz

I 108 Sandra Bullock

I 109 Tony Bennett

I 110 Whoopi Goldberg Judge Wapner, William Shatner

I 111 Heather Locklear

I 112 Jason Alexander Vendela

I 113 Pierce Brosnan

II 201 A. Hall, Little Richard, K. Ireland, C. Darden, J. Leno, K. Eubanks

II 202 Don Rickles & Coolio E. McMahon, B. Shaw, F. Willard

II 203 Dennis Quaid G. Gottfried

II 204 Andie MacDowell George Takei, Bob Keeshan, Ben Stein

II 205 Penn & Teller, Evander Holyfield, Lori Fetrick [Ice], Raye Holitt [Zap], Kathy Najimy

II 206 The Artist Formerly Known As Prince

II 207 Rick Moranis

II 208 Daryl Hannah, Page Hannah, Johnny Mathis

II 209 Best of Muppets Tonight

- Stulz Stulz 12:48, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Chris, the information on the set changes etc. sound interesting. Why don't you add those to the pages? -- Danny Toughpigs 22:30, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Guest stars

I think it would be more correct to say that the episodes have one guest star and a series of cameos instead of multiple guest stars. Larry King, for example, is not the guest star of his episode. He never even gets "on the air" at KMUP.--Pantalones 16:54, 14 Dec 2005 (UTC)

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