Forums: Index > Article Content > "autistic" vs "with autism"
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A few days ago, a user changed Julia's page to say "autistic" rather than "with autism". I agree with this change. Per this article, an online survey was held and over half of autistic respondents said they the term "autistic". And not that we should use Reddit as a source, but this thread gives some good insight into why. In general, it seems like many autistic people would rather acknowledge autism as an inseparable part of their identity, hence the use of "identity-first language". – Noah | (talk|activity|contribs) 23:45, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- Noah, thanks for bringing attention to this. I left a message for the user who made the change, but I didn't get a response. I think it would be prudent if we could get a community consensus on this considering the controversy the fandom had with some autism organizations that were aligned with Sesame Workshop a few years ago. I just want to be sure we're doing the right thing considering the sensitivity of the topic. —Scott
(talk) 00:24, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- It may also depend on where they are on the spectrum, that is, just like identification or preferred terms differ with other groups (like LGBT+). This is hardly expert opinion, but people I knew who specifically were diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome preferred the term "with Asperger's" over autistic, but that may have been partly wanting to be specific and not just lumped in. So far, sources I'm finding online suggest there's no real consensus and a bit of divide over preferred terms, mostly being a personal choice, but also showing a divide between adults, who decide their preferred identity labeling, and parents, who were concerned about how the labeling could affect their children or how institutions and authority figures could react. And it varies by country. There's some polling data here regarding the Netherlands, where 68 percent of adults and 82 percent of parents preferred "person with autism" over "autistic person," but with younger adults, more preferred the latter. While it may not reflect the preferences, what has Sesame Workshop used describing Julia and Stacey Gordon's status as a parent to a child on the spectrum? We could always use quotes and citation, so even if it's not ideal phrasing, it's also not Muppet Wiki creating the label. That's a vague thought, though, and I agree it would definitely be better if we heard more from people, both in our community and who have experience with autism. I also found this fairly article about the baggage associated with either phrase, but apparently the preference for "autistic" really increased in 2005 as a way to reclaim the term and to make it clear it's a condition but not a disease needing a cure. But then it discusses the parents being concerned about it as a negative label for their kids. So looking online, you find some sites which use "widely accepted" and assume there's a consensus favoring autistic, while others point out the variants and divide, even though the numbers preferring autistic/IFL over PFL do seem to be increasing at least in some parts of the world. -- Andrew
06:26, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- It may also depend on where they are on the spectrum, that is, just like identification or preferred terms differ with other groups (like LGBT+). This is hardly expert opinion, but people I knew who specifically were diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome preferred the term "with Asperger's" over autistic, but that may have been partly wanting to be specific and not just lumped in. So far, sources I'm finding online suggest there's no real consensus and a bit of divide over preferred terms, mostly being a personal choice, but also showing a divide between adults, who decide their preferred identity labeling, and parents, who were concerned about how the labeling could affect their children or how institutions and authority figures could react. And it varies by country. There's some polling data here regarding the Netherlands, where 68 percent of adults and 82 percent of parents preferred "person with autism" over "autistic person," but with younger adults, more preferred the latter. While it may not reflect the preferences, what has Sesame Workshop used describing Julia and Stacey Gordon's status as a parent to a child on the spectrum? We could always use quotes and citation, so even if it's not ideal phrasing, it's also not Muppet Wiki creating the label. That's a vague thought, though, and I agree it would definitely be better if we heard more from people, both in our community and who have experience with autism. I also found this fairly article about the baggage associated with either phrase, but apparently the preference for "autistic" really increased in 2005 as a way to reclaim the term and to make it clear it's a condition but not a disease needing a cure. But then it discusses the parents being concerned about it as a negative label for their kids. So looking online, you find some sites which use "widely accepted" and assume there's a consensus favoring autistic, while others point out the variants and divide, even though the numbers preferring autistic/IFL over PFL do seem to be increasing at least in some parts of the world. -- Andrew
- Sesame Workshop has been inconsistent on the issue. For example, the season 54 press kit bios describe her as "a bright and curious four-year-old girl who has autism" while other resources on the same site describe her as "a bright 4-year-old autistic child who lives on Sesame Street." A press release from this past April called her "an autistic Sesame Street Muppet" whereas the official publishing description for Sesame Street Friends: Julia called her "a Muppet with autism." I don't know if there is a universal answer. -- BradFraggle (talk) 06:55, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- I mean, speaking as an autistic person on the higher end of PDD-NOS...... I personally don't really see much of a difference with how it's worded. But I'm just speaking for myself and obviously other people are going to feel differently..... so that said, whichever ends up being the preferred is fine with me. MackAttack92 (talk) 23:06, 3 June 2024 (UTC)