Forum:Back to the Rock "Muppets"

Forums: Index > Article Content > Back to the Rock "Muppets"

Participation in the Muppet Wiki Forums requires a full understanding of the Rules and Etiquette.

---

For the new characters from Fraggle Rock: Back to the Rock, we won't categorize them as "Muppet Characters," correct? The word "Muppet" is nowhere in the credits, either for the performers or builders. I say this as Brad tried adding them to Muppets voiced by celebrities and while it makes sense for them to be on a page like that, they technically won't be Muppets even though the series originated as an official Muppet thing. - Shane (talk) 19:49, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

If Back to the Rock isn't a "Muppet TV Show," then it's just a "Henson Company Puppet Show" (like Pajanimals and Happytime Murder)... and if the new characters aren't Muppets (or Creatures) and the puppeteers aren't "Muppet Performers" (or "Creature Shop Performers") then why would we cover them? What is our scope and level of coverage for the new show then? I'm of the mindset (and thought our policies were) that "once a Muppet franchise, always a Muppet franchise" (I mean, we still fully-cover the seasons of Sesame Street where they went by "The Sesame Street Puppet Characters" and didn't use the M-word). -- BradFraggle (talk) 20:49, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

I think it'd be wrong for us not to cover it in the same detail as the previous show; it's not a totally unique thing like, say, Doozers which features no recognizable new characters (save for a one-shot appearance by the Ditzies). I'm just thinking we shouldn't put any new developments in the Muppet categories. - Shane (talk) 21:32, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

I think it depends on how we define (and continue to redefine) what a "Muppet" is and isn't. Before it was easy (any puppet franchise made by Jim... well, unless it was more "realistic," then it was a "Creature"). Now we have to ask who owns it? What workshop built it? How it's branded/marketed? What is the aesthetic/vibe? What legacy properties is it based on or tied to? etc. -- BradFraggle (talk) 21:42, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Going back a bit, Shane's initial question wasn't that the series shouldn't be categorized as a "Muppet TV Show." It's how to categorize new characters, which I don't think any of us who've chimed in so far actually have seen or know (definitely question marks or "unknown character" shouldn't be added to a character list page anyway). Some may not even be puppets at all (press releases say celebrity voices, but speaking of Ditzies, some could easily be CG or effects or whatever). We've had similar discussions on a smaller scale (as with '80s Robot). It would be good to get a concensus, but right now we don't even have anything to judge by. So personally I'd suggest we all waiting until these characters appear and there's something to go by, and that we discuss *before* creating new solo pages or extensive coverage if they end up being one-shots. Otherwise it's all hypothetical. -- Andrew 22:41, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

That's fair. I will say I have it on very good authority that all the celebrity voice characters are puppet-based (and one that is the actual human being). - Shane (talk) 23:38, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Didn't notice this before, but we have Donna Kimball as a Muppet Performer even though she's performed Mokey, a former Muppet trademark, in projects after the Disney sale, so not technically Muppet projects. - Shane (talk) 21:23, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Speaking of Mokey, you think next season they should split the difference between her two outfits? Cheril59 (talk) 16:11, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, I think we need to define more distinct categories for performers and celeb voices on this. Otherwise, I think Shane's point about excluding Muppet categories is fairly straightforward as far as potential new character pages. Catting them as Fraggle Rock: Back to the Rock characters or something should be enough and we don't need to compensate. Plus, Muppet Wiki:Coverage classifies this as an extension of a pre-1990 franchise, so coverage should not be in question. — Jon (talk) 21:37, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Wembley Fraggle is a Muppet. Jordan Lockhart performed Wembley. So that would make Jordan Lockhart a Muppet performer, right? -- 16:36, 21 January 2022 (UTC)