Forum:Exposed puppeteers at events

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The Exposed puppeteers page description notes that it omits examples of "live events where puppeteers are visible along side their Muppets." If that's the case, why does it include Steve alongside Kermit at a Barnes & Noble event, or Fran Brill performing Zoe to promote Jim Henson's Fantastic World, or the Dragon Con appearances? Should these be excluded, or should the note maybe be revised or removed? Why are we noting these over the many live appearances the performers have made with their characters? — Jon (talk) 16:21, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, those don't belong there. - Shane (talk) 17:42, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Agreed, they don't really belong there.

As background: the article was originally created to counter the complaints of "ruining the magic" and "think of the children" moments with things like Jim popping up after an appearance on Ed Sullivan or David Rudman with Cookie Monster during the goodnights of SNL or Kevin Clash with Elmo on a talk show. Basically highlighting those appearances where they showed the characters as both "real" living creatures and also revealed them as puppets to a wide "unsuspecting" audience. I think it's different when, say, Kermit is presented as a "real" living and autonomous frog in a show and it's also shown that it's just Jim or Steve or Matt doing the voice with their hand up inside him; as opposed to simply showing the puppeteers in a behind the scenes documentary or news segment or at a live panel discussion where the performers are simply demonstrating their craft and playing with the puppets.

It might be worth adding a separate section of scripted/staged live shows where they didn't attempt to hide puppeteers (like the Hollywood Bowl or O2 shows)... but again I think Carol Spinney putting on the Oscar puppet at one of his book signings or during a commencement speech or working behind the scenes in the I Am Big Bird documentary isn't really the same thing as if halfway through a nationwide talk show interview with Oscar the Grouch if Caroll just popped up from behind the couch to shatter the illusion. -- BradFraggle 17:00, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

I went ahead and removed those to match the criteria already in the article text. -- Andrew 02:47, 28 October 2021 (UTC)