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I was thinking about starting a Sandbox page for Muppet performers' independent puppetry projects:
- Tau Bennett's Cold Sober
- Stoph Scheer's The Creatures of Yes
- Ryan Dillon and Mark Gale's Dillongale
Would this be a good idea? Are there any other examples? --GrantHarding (talk) 16:44, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- I mean, I suppose there's precedent with Frank Oz films. - Shane
(talk) 18:34, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- Some other examples off the top of my head....
- Bill Barretta's Jules' Little Gems
- Leslie Carrara-Rudolph's Lolly Lardpop
- David Rudman's Spiffy Pictures
- Caroll Spinney's Picklepuss and Pop
- Steve Whitmire's Cave-in
- - BradFraggle (talk) 18:54, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- Some other examples off the top of my head....
- This is sounding confusing and vague to me, especially in terms of what we're considering a "side project" and what we want to cover, beyond just on the performer's pages. Frank Oz films or Jerry Nelson discography work, being just about one person's output and one specifically notable aspect of it which *would* otherwise overwhelm their article, or the non-Muppet/Henson acting roles pages. This, though, Picklepuss and Pop originated before Spinney joined the Muppets (and we really don't have a ton of info on them beyond what's there already). Spiffy Pictures is a production company, one which by now also does animated series, and hard to cover. "Jules' Little Gems" I had to Google and apparently was four web videos uploaded in 2020.
- Outside projects which are verifiable rate incorporation into the performer articles certainly, but I definitely don't think we'd want solo pages for any of these, and I can't picture how an en masse page would work without becoming a mess (even the existing Projects with Muppet crew connections has issues which Shane and I have discussed here and off wiki before). Before more examples are tossed in the mix, Grant, can you clarify a little more what you'd want to do in the Sandbox, a title listing, brief logline, basically what would make a kind of catch all of "this person performed in Muppet stuff so they also did this" thing, even if they were a creator or co-creator?
- Basically I'm not at all clear on what's being proposed, but just from the list above, it already sounds convoluted. Not even counting that so many folks upload quick videos to their blogs and social media, we can't track every "so and so has a puppet do a one minute reaction" or whatever (so we'd likely need to define it as something explicitly outside their general social media sites). If these things aren't on the performers' pages, that's where they should go first before anything else. There may be a simpler way to make it a bare list of titles and who's involved (and even then we'd want to include year ranges or something or links), but again if it's not already on the performers' pages, nobody will know what the heck it is anyway. If it's more just that you want to personally track all this, your user space might be better for it. I don't want to sound like I'm completely discouraging the notion, but it feels like something we want to approach very carefully and could get out of hand very quickly (the whole reason "Projects with" and such pages exist was to replace previous random "Non-Muppet" articles years ago which *had* gotten out of hand. It's basically like stuff we already have in Category:Connections and those have required careful limits, definition, and agreement on how much to cover and how to organize. -- Andrew
19:39, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- I think these could easily be included on each respective performer page, a la The Mighty Weaklings on Matt Vogel. On the other hand, I'm curious to see what Grant's "Muppeteers' puppeteer projects" might look like. —Scott (talk) 20:52, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- I think these could easily be included on each respective performer page, a la The Mighty Weaklings on Matt Vogel. On the other hand, I'm curious to see what Grant's "Muppeteers' puppeteer projects" might look like. —Scott
- Yeah, I would say that Lolly Lardpop and Cave-In would qualify, but Spiffy Pictures (a full blown production company) and Picklepuss and Pop (predating the Muppets) wouldn't. And I agree that they should be on the performers' pages (as indeed, many if not all of them are), but I just thought it would be fun to have them all in one place. (Thanks to whoever pushed the button to make this thread show up on the forum page; I couldn't figure out how to do it.) --GrantHarding (talk) 18:38, 10 April 2024 (UTC)