Forum:Sesame Street Episode Guide reminders

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Heya folks. As we now appear to be in the homestretch for coverage of the Category:Sesame Street Episode Guide, I thought it would be prudent to post some reminders as it's not always easy to keep so many things in mind as we plow through these.

As with everything else, please be aware of Muppet Wiki:Policies and Guidelines. In particular, Muppet Wiki:Image Policy has recently been updated to include a line item about cropping TV gutter space from screenshots. There are some other helpful guidelines in there about resizing and format, etc.

Completing an episode guide isn't just about filling in the missing images. Here are some other things to consider for inclusion:

• Most of the street scenes for episodes left to complete were written based on scripts before the episode was finalized, and may therefore be different. In these cases, the descriptions should be updated to reflect the aired version. In some cases (but not all), it may be appropriate to include the script description, when it's notable. See the changes made to Scene 4 in Episode 0401, for example. We've been logging some of those at Sandbox:Script inconsistencies.

• The script differences also extend to the segments used in the episode. Check to make sure the segments filled in from the scripts are the same as the final episode and make any appropriate changes.

• Mentions of character family members for coverage in Category:Family Groups.

• References to books, TV, movies, and other outside media for coverage in Category:References.

• Adding episodes to character filmographies, or at least noting one-off character performers in parentheses to making finding these easier using Special:WhatLinksHere.

• If an episode was a repeat with a different episode number, be sure the street story descriptions and screenshots match.

• The {{collapsible}} template is necessary to make the "SHOW ONLY STREET SCENES" button at the top of the table work. SCENEs should be marked {{collapsible|no}} (because they should not collapse) and anything else — including Muppet sketches, films, cartoons, and CLOSING SIGNS — should be marked as {{collapsible|yes}} (because they should collapse).

• Be thoughtful with screenshot selections. In most cases, one per scene is sufficient. When more is necessary, try to choose shots that are visually distinct, include the most important characters for the scene, and those that best depict what is being described.

• Noting performers for AMs and other one-offs to help with Category:Performer Filmographies. (Jerry Nelson's gallery is about to get a big surge!) Discussions related to this topic can be deployed at Forum:Character galleries.

• Checking other guides to see if a newly added sketch was repeated and making sure we copy the info over with appropriate {{first}} tags when applicable. Make sure descriptions for repeated sketches match; if a description is changed on one episode, it should be changed on all episodes where it's been repeated. A lot of these aren't linked, but may be findable by Googling the existing description like this.

• One-off actors and crew cameos, if identifiable. Shane and Andrew have been tracking some of these at Sandbox:Episodic actors on Sesame for eventual articles when sufficient information is available.

• Consideration for Sandbox:Alternate takes in Muppet skits.

• Please note that the dates found on the information slates found at the beginning of episode masters DO NOT represent the date when the episode was taped. Muppet Wiki has sourced taping dates to production documents available to select members. See also: Forum:Master tape slates.

• Don't forget that the SHOW PREVIEW button can (and should) be used to show you a preview of what your changes will look like before you hit the SAVE button. This ensures no errors are made that need to be fixed with subsequent edits.

This message is intended for editors contributing to the episode guide project. Questions unrelated to this topic will be ignored and/or removed. Thanks for your understanding. Questions and comments following the forum's guidelines that are directly related to this topic are welcome. Thank you! —Scott (talk) 13:31, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

While I was filling out the guide for Episode 0129, it became clear that this photo was taken while they shot the closing street scene. Should it go on the episode page now? CDCB2 (talk) 14:32, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

This is a good question with multiple occurrences, but I'm not sure we've ever decided on a uniform format for set photos to include on an episode guide. Very few pages are like Episode 1839 with a significant lead-in to put something like that, so the logical space would be below the table. I suppose a Gallery header at the bottom would be appropriate (we do this for episodes of The Muppet Show). Some photos may be noteworthy enough to also include in the article about that episode's season. —Scott (talk) 14:39, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

I made sure to go over the image policy just to be safe. I have noticed a lot of the 70s shows have those annoying black bars around them. Those should absolutely be left out, correct? MackAttack92 (talk) 14:50, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes. Muppet_Wiki:Image_Policy#Alterations. —Scott (talk) 14:51, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

One other reminder we should have is to remove the "trusted" field from the {{episodesesame}} template when the segments and running order are confirmed with video, rather than scripts. — Jon (talk) 18:25, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

Categories and other small changes

Just a notice that we'll soon be retiring Category:Sesame Street Episode Guide. We created this years ago as a special category just for episodes that were fully tabled with images. A (mostly) complete guide is a soon-to-be reality, so this category is no longer needed. For the handful of episodes that will still be missing some screenshots, we'll cover those differently.

Also, we're adding some new categories based on the decade the episode aired in to support an upcoming feature. More on that soon.

Finally, the width of the title card that appears at the top of most episodes is causing some issues with mobile, so we'll be reducing that a bit. To future proof this, we'll also be adding an image= field to the episode template box.

All of these changes will be done in the background by a bot and should be done within 24 hours. The one exception is moving the title card from below the template to within the template; unfortunately my RegEx skills don't extend that far and I think it will be easier to do it manually than find someone who can program it for us.

This is not cause for worry or a call to action, just something I wanted folks working on the guides to be aware of. I'll update here as soon as the process is complete. —Scott (talk) 00:19, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

Slight addendum for those working on the guides: when you finish one, instead of adding the Episode Guide category, please instead add [[Category:Sesame Street Episode 1970s]] or whatever decade that episode aired in. Turns out that, the sorter we place after the pipe (for example [[Category:Sesame Street Episode| 0001]] is a variable that is also just beyond my RegEx skills. For those episodes that were already in the soon-to-be retired Episode Guide category, they are all automatically being placed into the new decade category, so no need to do anything extra for those.

And, while I'm at it, I may as well reveal what the decade categories are for. To begin with, they're hidden categories, so they won't be seen on the page in reader mode and they're not meant for browsing. We're instituting these to support a new variation on the Random Episode button to help readers find new ways to discover these guides we've all been working on so hard for so long. More to come! —Scott (talk) 00:54, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

I wish you'd ask the community what they thought before making this change. I know almost every episode has complete guides now, but I still think the episode guide category is useful to separate pages that are complete from those that are not. —Anthony (talk) 04:20, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

If that's seriously necessary, wouldn't it make more sense to separate guides that aren't complete. (A [[Category:Lost episodes]] maybe?) A category that houses 99% of the pages in another one doesn't seem too useful. – Noah | ^{(talk|activity|contribs)} 04:28, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

I think it's served its purpose. And the number of "pages that are complete" is in the 4,400s, whereas "those that are not" is like 50-something. I'd say that if we would categorize anything, it'd be those 50-something because those are now the distinct episode pages for lacking imagery, not the ones that are fully guided and pretty. - Shane (talk) 04:34, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

Ant said: "I still think the episode guide category is useful to separate pages that are complete from those that are not." The difference between the Sesame Street Episode Guide and Sesame Street Episodes category was (just did the math) 1.1%. We don't need separate categories for that. Certainly it was helpful when that margin was much wider, but not at 1%. Consider as well that List of Sesame Street episodes exists specifically to do exactly what you're describing.

Also, As Noah mentioned, those that don't have all the pictures (of which there will only be 50 or so out of 4,633+) will be highlighted on Lost episodes of Sesame Street. —Scott (talk) 11:43, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

I'm thinking we should definitely link the lost episodes page in the description for the Sesame Episodes category to make finding them easier. - Shane (talk) 18:34, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

Alright. You guys make good points. I'm just sad that such a staple of the Wiki is gone now. I can just imagine causal readers who've been coming to the Wiki for years being like "What the heck happened?" But oh, well, the deed is done. —Anthony (talk) 00:14, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Should lost episodes without images be placed in the decade-specific categories? I noticed the 70s category was added to 157 so I was wondering. – Noah | ^{(talk|activity|contribs)} 20:29, 21 July 2022 (UTC)