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Michael brought up on the TP Discord that he couldn't find a sandbox page he put together for "Unseen acts on The Muppets Show." I didn't see it in Muppet Wiki:Deleted Sandboxes, but I found it in the master delete log for Michael's contributions. I used a database backup from the time of deletion to see if there was any discussion, but I couldn't find it, so I resurrected it here: Sandbox:Unseen acts.
The summary for deletion was "too much minutia, mostly duplicates Category:Unseen Characters or notes on episode pages." Personally, I don't agree. I think the minutia is fine in relation to the kinds of lists we cover and it definitely doesn't duplicate Unseen Characters because we wouldn't find a lot of those acts notable enough to create pages for them. I do agree that it duplicates notes on episode pages, but I think that's fine; the purpose of a list is to put all of that information in the same place so that readers don't have to look at 120 episode pages just to find the unseen acts.
I'm gonna take a closer look to see if there's anything I can spruce up, but I think this could be an interesting page. —Scott 
(talk) 12:29, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Sprucing up would help. I can't relocate the original off-wiki discussion before deleting (it may have just been myself and User:Jbrangwynne53), but a big issue for me apart from the reasons stated in the summary is the writing, and thus why I feel like the duplication is an issue:
- "Kermit calls for monsters to be on stage for the next act. The next act seen in the actual episode does not contain any monsters." (As written, it sounds like a goof or continuity issue rather than an act not seen).
- "Gonzo does an act. He walks backstage, pleased with the audience reaction."
- "In the UK spot, Kermit tells Sam that Zero Mostel will be doing a pantomime number with Fozzie Bear. The segment was shot but didn't make the final cut of the episode." (Technically not an unseen act so much a deleted scene)
- And this one just reads like speculation: "Episode 208 — due to the nature of Kermit auditioning new acts, any act that passed the audition would appear in a later episode. None of these specific acts were actually shown in later episodes, but among those who debuted in this episode are The Flying Zucchini Brothers, who would return from time to time, indicating that they at least passed the audition." We don't need to go into "indicating" or possible things implied. But it's listed under "Announced/Acts that were referred to as being planned for later shows."
- "Kermit considers canceling the planned closing number, the joust scene from Camelot, due to the fact that the rights holders won't let them use the music. The act goes on anyway, just with completely different music." I'm not even sure that counts as canceling or an unseen act in any way. We see the act just without songs from the actual Camelot musical.
- Those flat "there's a line about something and we don't see it" statements could really use adjusting so they don't feel like Notes simply reparked.
- I can't find the discussion so it's probable I jumped the gun in deleting a little (it had been inactive for over a year, and that's when Sandbox was truly overstuffed). But I think it really needs to be more readable than the current form to be a real article. As for Unseen Characters, all but two have pages already (thus why it looked like duplication to me), and filling them would be about par with the existing ones:
- Sonia and Her Singing Seals from Episode 101 pilot version (text there is indeed cut and pasted from the page; not sure if anyone has footage of the pilot or scene to add more to it)
- Marvel the Magician from Episode 117 (since his trunk is key to the plot, page creation would be easy and could even have an image)
- So I think it's mainly a writing issue or possibly restructuring so there's less "Kermit says blank and blank doesn't happen" and so on, and addressing those other issues. That way we can avoid any "This act was shown but something changed so I think it should count as canceled"/"I interpret this as meaning they should have been in other episodes" stuff. -- Andrew
04:39, 16 July 2024 (UTC)