Hi again. Regarding this edit, YouTube or forum comments usually aren't reliable, so we generally don't use them as sources. There are exceptions when it's provably a performer or crew member commenting. Someone claiming to be a descendant of a crew member (who doesn't identify by their actual name, and in a comment from 7 years ago) enters a grey area at best. At the very least, it's better to use an official source (per our sourcing policy). In this case, the script for repeat episode 1385 does not identify the actress who played the stewardess (our script copy of #1090 cuts off before scene 5).
RE: this edit, one other exception to this is if someone can confirm with video footage. Sesame Maniac is a user here (User:Hooperfan), so if he can verify with video, that counts.
You still need to be identifying your source (in this case, saying what it is in your edit summary) when you add new information, and that has become problematic recently in your additions to some episode pages. Other users need to be kept in the loop about where you're getting your info from. It's more helpful to be transparent and show your source when you add something the first time, rather than a second time after it's been removed. If the source is contested or doesn't apply to our sourcing policy, then you need to discuss it with the user who removed it rather than changing it back. Let me know if this makes sense. Thanks!
From policies and guidelines, "IMDb and Wikipedia (and other user generated sites like The Muppet Newsflash blog that don't cite sources) are generally not sources when it comes to Muppet/Henson productions. Such information should only be added or entries only brought up if they are confirmed by screen credits, presskits, or other reliable outside sources. Otherwise, it generally reflects what an unknown user * thinks* is correct..."
This applies equally to what someone says they saw or remembered, and claims that can only be checked if a person's name (and not a username) is involved. For our own longtime editors (who we've worked with for over a decade in many cases, know by real name, etc.), "I have a copy and this is what it has" is fine because they've proven trustworthy (and in some cases their source is something they can't really circulate on YouTube and such, as a condition of access), but we need a little more proof in other cases.
So you can cite a YouTube clip to prove something, but not somebody's comment. This applies to forums, message boards, Facebook comments, all social media. The exception is when it's an official channel of the filmmaker/actor etc. and they respond directly (and likewise official Twitter, Facebook page, etc. as long as it's confirmed as being from an actual crew member).
Oh, one final issue with using those sorts of comments is that they're often years old. Even here on Muppet Wiki, we often follow up on things and "I checked, I got the title/date/etc. wrong" is common. That may not be the case for that particular "Coming Soon" clip, but it's why we need better evidence (or a direct discussion with HooperFan/SesameManiac, since nobody else can help verify an uploader's source).
Elijah, please show your sources. You need to identify the source for the information you're adding in your edit summary so it's clear to readers and other editors, specifically when it's something that's not readily available. If it's a YouTube comment or a memory or the like, we can't accept it. Please reply here so we know you understand. Thank you.
I know for a fact that I saw the "We Are Family" music video on March 11 2002. Right now, the music video currently online is the 2004-2005 version. (That version has clips from Jojo's Circus, Blue's Room, The Backyardigans) Does anyone know where I can find or have the original 2002 music video? For example, I saw a shot of both Kermit and his nephew Robin in the 2002 version, but the 2005 version replaced that very shot.
Per our policy on sourcing, we don't use memories as a source; the only exception to this is if a considerable consensus can be reached. Otherwise, it reflects what one person remembers as being correct. The video you're describing sounds like it's hard to come by, therefore it's difficult for other users and readers to verify Robin's appearance without readily available video.
Oh! The closing CTW sign with David (as seen on episode 1190) was also on a Friday episode. It was the only closing sign seen on the episode (similar to episode 1575), and Big Bird said, "Happy landing!" It must be from season 12 or 13. Know of an episode like that? 'cuz I saw the end credits once.
Hi, I undid your edits to The Birthday Bird for now. The mention of a new puppet for the character doesn't make sense if his only appearance was the previous season (if there's another appearance we missed, it should be noted).
Also for Recycled puppets situations on pages, it works best if the other character has a page, or at the least if you could specify what episode they appeared in. If you can clear up those, feel free to re-add, but as was it didn't make sense or really provide useful information.
Hi, I took out your additions to Big Bag for now, since the voices for the main characters were all done in New York. To the best of my knowledge. Scott and Moore did the original tracks *but* it's possible they remain in some segments in episodic or one-shot roles. I'm in touch with Keith Scott so I'll double check with him, but in the meantime we're not listing additional voices anyway for the segments if there's no specific role to attach.
All the other principals were provably recorded in New York (and they redubbed the other international segments, "Slim Pig" and "Tobias Totz"; "William's Wish Wllingtons" was the exception).
I've seen that list (I cited it when taking out someone else's claim that Fran Brill is in the segments), which is useful, but those lists include voices for both versions. So it's not proof they worked on the US aired version. I'll check (Scott and I have corresponded as animation researchers, just info, not asking for recordings), but in itself, it's not that helpful; it proves they worked on some version of the show (my impression has been that they voiced the leads in the original Australian tracks), not necessarily the US aired one and not necessarily any specific role that we would track here (why I hadn't added other names from that same list like Deborah Rabbai). The other difficulty, and why I'm not ruling it out entirely but reminding you we don't just stick uncredited names if we can't find out what they did, is that there's no full release of the series and segments to try to hunt them down or confirm their absence.
I'll send out a feeler after Christmas or the New Year and see what we find. But likely we'd still only add them if we could confirm a specific regular character (or regular utility roles) played by both of them.
Thanks for leaving the note on your edit to Production order vs. Broadcast order. I did a rollback this morning to fix some weird software breakage and then went through and did a big code clean-up, so your corrections and edit summary afterward were helpful. Thanks!
Hi again. I specifically cleaned up some of the wording on that page, and you added it back. For example, we don't need an explanation longer than to say that a particular sign was included in the Old School version of the episode. Please respond here so I know you understand.
And as for Episode 1545? Well, once someone posted a video on YouTube that had the season 12 (or was it season 13) credits of an episode that only featured David's CTW sign but no picture of someone with the Sesame Street sign. (Just like the season 12 finale which only featured Bob and Linda with the CTW sign).
Anyways, I'm pretty sure Big Bird said "Happy landing!" after he said the CTW tag. Or was it "Happy lending!" Maybe they used David's CTW sign for that in Episode 1660.
I'm so psyched I can hardly stand it! Tomorrow morning at 8, there's a 12-hour Sesame Street marathon on YouTube! It's basically 12 episodes Sesame Workshop picked at random from the past 50 years. If an episode from any of the first 14 seasons pops up, be sure to add some new closing signs
I agree, these episodes need to be a smaller size for us to get anything done
If the conversion will take a while, someone could always post the eps on Dailymotion/Youtube (although I'm starting to have a feeling that the Youtube uploaders are getting tired of us asking for closing signs)