Hi, Julian, a long time ago we tried to avoid "appears to be based on" comments on characters unless we have an actual source, because a lot of our users kept adding it (same with "sounds like" comments on voices) and it's basically speculation. If we could source that they used the same pattern and just changed the colors (because that's what "based on design structure" suggests for practical purposes, that someone just copied the Zoot pattern deliberately), it's fine, but just going by appearances has proven a problem, and of course you know our policy on sources (and while we may trust each other's perceptions more than new users, we really have to apply the same rule).
Another reminder, categories are for the character's debut (and we've made exceptions for series), not every production they appear in (which was decided over a decade ago, to keep categories down on characters like Kermit the Frog). That's why the movie categories say "exclusively from" or "Characters introduced in..." (in the case of Muppets Most Wanted) on the category page text. Thanks!
Yeah, problem is we've had other people speculating on various characters or assuming patterns are reused or puppets reworked when it's questionable or a matter of individual arguments, while for Lew there's the fan club newsletter as a citation (at least for being a Whatnot first, so it was finding a match). A lot of it is basically just setting a good example for the, err, more impressionable kids, so we cite cite cite (and in some cases, hold back on personal theories, even the very plausible ones, until confirmation).
Not to beat a dead horse, but I just found Scott's wording on Lady Guenevere, and wondered if that last sentence is really too different from what I attempted to convey? Maybe it just slipped through. Though, I do feel that these tidbits are interesting enough to merit inclusion. Is anybody here in contact with folks from Puppet Heap by chance, for us to request some nerd-tastic digging on these newer, more obscure puppets' origins, while the builders are still around to shed some light?
Well, there is a difference between "similar to" and "appears to be based on" (someone else turned it into exactly the kind of speculation we're discouraging but it was undone). That said, I don't think it's really that necessary there either, but it's also not trying to make a claim about puppet construction and pattern reuse or whatever.
Checking the wording again on Esther, you used "the puppet's basic design structure appears to be based on that of" Zoot. Guenevere's page isn't suggesting that Scooter's pattern was used (it obviously wasn't), but they do have similar coloring and eye placement. That said, the sentence was added in 2006, so fourteen years later, we can do without it if there's an issue. It's basically just a leftover.
Hey, Julian! Another query. Any idea for your source on this edit? Actual viewing? There's no video, the IMDb listing (while often not reliable) doesn't show any Muppety folk for date, and basically this and a redlink on Walter (because someone copied it to his filmography later) are the only evidence it existed. If it was viewing, would you still have a copy or any notes about it? (Not that likely nine years later, I know).
Heya! Those were definitely added after I watched them. As for if I've got the files, possibly on disc somewhere, unfortunately I cannot check on that anytime soon (though, I suspect that I do). So, if you want to unlink them for some reason, that's alright, but let's not lose the info entirely!
Hooray! Still can't find images or specifics, but there's also a Made in Hollywood: Teen Edition from 2008 redlinked, focusing somehow on the Jim Henson Company (whoever added it put in less detail). So right now I'm thinking a single stub covering both shows, as we've done with other related franchises (works better as a placeholder than two one or two sentence pages).
Hey, Julian! This was added by a blocked user in 2010. Scott deleted it in 2011 and you restored it. Any idea what it is or where or how it could be used, if it's even official? (I'm not too keen on keeping banned user's images for years just in case).
Yes, see my edits in the image chamber -- I tried to clean-up at the same time as you did, without realizing; then consolidated as best as I could. It is an official Herlitz brand drawing pad, but unfortunately I do not have a year...
I'm always excited for more international dubs being covered! Otherwise we make it seem as if, beside English of course, most Muppet productions are mainly available in German -- with some Spanish, French, and Dutch sprinkled in. There's still SO much we don't account for.
I just knew we'd had something like that, and I just couldn't find it anymore for several years -- until today. Adding it to the interface really helps with eliminating the tedious copy-and-paste process, thanks! :)
Hey man, I just added some code to Template:Medialink which should make it unnecessary to have to keep adding files to Muppet Wiki:Image chamber so that they don't show up in Special:UnusedFiles when we're doing maintenance. Unlike the previous version, this new method should make the file page compatible with Special:WhatLinksHere also.
I recently found a Muppet Poster from Scandecor in a garage sale. I see that you posted a smaller version of that poster (All Balconies 1979). But that one I found is huge (2,70 meters by 2 meters) and in 4 parts. Do you know for which purpose it was made ? Thanks a lot !
It seems that you're talking about the same poster that I have (the dimensions are identical, I had just added the word "small" to the file name because I had a much larger scan as well, if I remember correctly).
The version that I have is in one piece though, so it seems that your version might've been sliced up at one point, or possibly sold that way to begin with?! In what country did you find yours?
As far as their purpose, these were sold as decorative articles of merchandise during the late 1970s/early 1980s, mostly in Europe, especially in Germany, as far as I'm aware. In the mid-2000s a lot of them were still being sold on eBay, in mint condition; that's where I got mine. Maybe they're still available, if you're looking for one that's intact. Though, you could always have yours professionally framed in order to hide the cuts. :)
I found it in Belgium. It's cut to perfection so I guess it was done by a factory or sold that way, I don't know... I already tried to have it framed but it's oversized and they're asking me a lot to frame it (over 800€) I guess I'll try to find another way to have it in one piece. Anyway I don't have any wall that size at the moment, my wall is 2,60 meters so I'm short 10 cm...
I have to apologize, I was wrong about the poster's dimensions - you do seem to have an oversize poster on your hands! Unfortunately I can't currently check, but the one that I had framed in the past was between 1/4 and 1/2 that size.
It might be worth researching if the company still exists, possibly under a new name, and inquiring more about this specific version from someone directly involved. It could be a rare find, indeed! Should you ever do so, please let us know what you find out!
And... yikes, on that price tag for having it framed! 😲
Hi, Julian! The current Sesamstrasse table separating male and female Elmo is actually misleading, since Elmo was already male and not "Elma" before Falkenberg's tenure ended. International Elmo, I'm not sure where it came from now, says he became male and Elmo in 2000, which would have been *when* she started. Can you look into those dates so we can adjust? (It looks like it just needs to be one character table with a note like "Elma (female) until [year]."
I've been trying to find out, but nothing's getting any clearer as to when the change occurred. :(
If I remember correctly, aren't some of our editors in contact with the guy that ran a rather extensive Sesamstrasse fan site a while back (now defunct)? Maybe he'll be able to offer certainty on the issue?!
Hi, Julian, I'm parking your addition to Breaking the fourth wall in Muppet films here, just so the image doesn't get deleted. It doesn't fit since the page says "Muppet films" and that it's explicitly for when they "have shown their awareness of being in a movie." You might want to sandbox it though for TV, although there characters talking to the audience are pretty common and don't always mean "We know this is a fictional production" (Sesame Street, Bear, etc.) and of course Muppet Babies often did it, especially when they expanded the running time and they did their own "don't go away" bumpers. Still, it could work, just has to be its own page.