Going through your Play With Me Sesame additions, while fleshing out is appreciated, I noticed some discrepancies in the credits. Home video cast lists really need to reflect the credit order and the names used on screen (and any uncredited contributions of note can be listed afterwards and designated as such). We can and do add specific roles (but not generally right handing and such which we only found out recently anyway; it's fine to just include the puppeteer's name and if necessary the sketch/song), but we need them to be accurate. It seems that the video releases only used the regular show end credits, so the cast order is basically how you listed it. That gets confusing, especially with those "and" additions (that's something we only use in that fashion when that's actually how someone was credited, like "And Frank Oz"), and your incorporation of the recently added additional performer/singing vocals info is a bit incomplete as well (including some names but not others).
We'll have to go through and redo them all to reflect the actual credits (and *then* add uncredited people from clips, without the "archive video" designation since it's used for some clip performers who weren't otherwise involved and not others). I think you may have finished with those, but please keep this in mind in the future (and also some formatting tips: parentheticals like "some scenes" aren't italicized, the phrases shouldn't be capitalized either, and character names only need to be linked once in a cast list if multiple people played them). If you have the time and inclination to fix any yourself, it would definitely help out. Thanks!
Also, the "some framing scenes" note on John Tartaglia. Have you actually found those in every episode where it's noted? That only seems to have applied to the second season, and if those aren't included, then he's just being credited for assisting or for non-vocal puppeteering of Ernie or whoever. Given David Rudman's inclusion, they might just be using the season 2 cast list on all of them (the first season didn't credit Rudman and Tartaglia only as an additional puppeteer, a heading they dropped later). Just something that needs to be double checked (if you actually confirmed Tartaglia had a speaking Ernie contribution in a given video, it can stay).
As mentioned in Thread: 285043 and Thread: 289933, I have seen all of the PWMS episodes from Youku, and I can hence confirm where the original framing scenes from that show in terms of seasonal order. Season 2, without a doubt was the only season John played Ernie, while other SS characters (e.g. Cookie Monster, Zoe and Ernestine primarily) joined the core 4 characters (Ernie, Bert, Grover and Prairie) in the show's original content.
To confirm on the credits, all PWMS videos used the Season 2 template, but I am here to confirm that I had nothing to do mostly with the credits. Other users on the wiki have also contributed to the building of such video pages, primarily including Antsamthompson9. All that I have constructed mostly out of all the PWMS video pages are the rough video templates and international release pictures. The credits portion are something that other users have added later in the editing process and that I have nothing to do with the "And" portion. And to confirm further on John's performance as Ernie in the videos, I can confirm that all the PWMS videos have at least one framing scene featuring John primarily performing Ernie, especially for those released for the USA. If you do have any trouble finding out, I just can ask you to look through any PWMS framing segment online and compare it with Steve's performances and the video sketches to understand the roles that John has portrayed in the framing material from PWMS used for the videos.
You did add at least some of those cast lists to start with, as here. So just keep everything I said about making sure those lists reflect screen order, if you add any other video casts or credits for anything.
Thanks, and thanks for your additions (and admins have less time to check every single video available, so if you are able to specify any Tartaglia inclusions beyond "some framing scenes" or which ones were season 2 if you can, that really would help, since your own viewing is our only source on this).
Hi again Chew. I don't think copying existing episode guides to video pages, such as here, is the best idea. It doesn't really improve the page, and if we just include a link to a given episode, readers can look at the guide and see the Street story there. It's less repetitive that way. I think it's best if you focused on another area. Thanks.
Speaking of repetition, we really don't need full character lists (something we seldom include on actual Sesame Street episodes, just full cast lists for select premieres and such) on compilation videos, especially if there's already a performer list with character IDs (mentioning crowd and so on isn't needed anyway). Thanks!
Hi Chew. When adding to our Dates pages, please be mindful of the guidelines being discussed on the Forum, namely in Scott's message noting that we're only linking episodes and not the show titles. We still want to italicize them though, per Muppet Wiki:Style Guide#Names and Titles. Thanks.
Also, note Scott's reminder here. Every single date, including birth dates for every puppeteer and guest star as well as for stuff only tangentially related or irrelevant, does not go on the date pages. Teaser trailers or announcements of something opening don't count, just the actual movie release or exhibit opening. Definitely "announces that something is canceled/didn't get picked up" isn't a vital part of a day by day Muppet history.
Please respond here so we know you understand. The enthusiasm is appreciated, but we're having to do a lot of clean-up.
Ok, just to explain, regarding the Sesame street videography, majority of the edits I had made over the past few days have mainly been focused on the Singapore and Malaysia home video releases. To explain, most of their releases beforehand have been classified as Asia releases, which seemed pretty generic to me, and for someone who's living in Singapore and has known everything about the availibility and the designs of such videos here, I had to make the necessary ammendments. Also, as further explanation, I have seen DVDs releases of such tittles here by the same distributors of the VC Ds in my region, and with the fact that no one added such images so far, I had really no choice but to add such images to prove their existence. Cosidering that the DVD releases use similar artwork to the Genius reissues and other releases of certain tittles, they were proven to be a bit harder to track down. Hence to clarify all the info I have gotten so far, their pictures have been taken from online shops, mostly from Carousell, since they have been out of print and hard to find nowadays. (one example: http://www.digilearn.com.hk/prod_01_sesame_street4.html, which shows a majority of such local releases.)
In addition, I had to expand the Australia releases of some tittles through more online extensive research, from a variety of sites such as Ebay and other scratchpad wikias that have high quality scans of covers of such releases whoose pictures have not been put up on Muppet wikia by anyone.
Also to further note out, Sesame Street videos (Japan) had a list of Sesame street videos whoose majority of pictures had not been posted to their respective video pages, which had to lead me to hestitate and put their images on the pages here in the wikia, with the exception of a Kids Guide to Life japan release tittle which I had yet to confirm its actual OG English name due to my lack of understanding Japanese.
Also, to add on, I have also added in new pictures of releases of Sesame Street videos in Taiwan, thanks to my ability of being able to understand Mandarin. To clarify on such releases, they were done by Ladder Publishing on videotape, and were packaged under a book and tape case set, in which the books provided a full out translation to the script of the videos. (Assuming that the tapes were presented in the original English language and had no mandarin subs.) Link to one of the tow known sets I could find: https://ms-my.facebook.com/bookfinder119/posts/2416404681933256 。 (Just to note, not all pictures of their releases have been posted on this wikia as I am still trying to clarify pictures of some releases, apart from activity book.)
Hi. I moved your Ernie Says article to Sandbox so you can continue to work on it. Pages on recurring Play with Me Sesame segments is kind of new territory; we don't also have a page on Grover's "Moving and Grooving" segment for example, so it doesn't really fit on the main Wiki right now. Categorically speaking, it does not belong in Sesame Street Episodes, which only tracks episodes from the main series, not the spin-offs. If you do intend on creating pages for the other PWMS segments, please make them Sandbox pages, and maybe later, we can make a community decision on whether or not we should be tracking them.
Hi Chewie, you haven't responded here yet, but thanks for continuing this in the sandbox rather than an article in the main namespace.
You seem to be putting in a lot of work on it and the new one for the Grover segments you just created, so I wanted to point out that Jon and I aren't really sure what this thing you're creating is and it should probably be discussed before you put too much work into it.
We don't really have anything on the wiki that goes on for paragraphs and paragraphs about one sketch in that level of detail, and I'm not sure it's needed. You may as well be transcribing the episodes.
Could you share with us some of your thought process in writing these?
Hi there. So before I get to any explanation, I would like to apologise if I'd caused some trouble on the wiki coming up with Play With Me Sesame episode lists months ago, but all that was really part of my interest to contribute something more to the show on this wiki which seems to have very little info about itself explained here.
The reason behind making theese pages was really after taking a look at ALL of the international PWMS episodes of EVERY season and afterwards recording their episode lists down on fanmade, non public google docs . Knowing that all of theese sketches were recurring on the show, I had the though of documenting them down due to their repetition in not just the videography but also within the series itself. With so many original sketches of PWMS used on the show and that this wiki has kept track of numerous Muppet and Sesame Street sketches, and the fact that almost no one has made pages of them really sparked my interest in contributing more information of such sketches and content from that show. Hence, the creation of the two segment pages I had made recently.
Also, a reason why I'm keeping them in detail is because, as I'd mentioned, seen the WHOLE series. Hence, I could sense some form of difference of each segment coming in from each season of the show (and not just picture quality).
P.S Just a question, during my early times of editing PWMS videography, I had helped create a page for a PWMS video- "Playtime with Prairie Dawn", which to this date is the only PWMS video to not have its own Muppet Wiki page. Unfortunately, with not much info provided on the page at the same time I created it (since I don't have the actual copy itself), it somehow vanished without reason. So, just out of my doubts, can you or any other admin explain why that page got deleted despite not putting in much info (besides brief explanation and layouts) upon creation? Like, is that action part of a Muppet Wiki policy rule I don't know about?
We still don't have any sources for the episode guide structure you got from a third party site. That said, a PWMS episode guide is something we'd like to build, we just need the organization to be accurate. For example, when we made the Muppet Show episode guide, we had official Henson documents to go by.
It sounds like you've been able to acquire a lot of PWMS episodes, and a lot of good information can be pulled from them, we just need to do it accurately.
As for Playtime with Prairie Dawn, I deleted that in December because it was a mostly blank page that duplicated what was already on Play With Me Sesame videography.
As far as official sources for PWMS episodes (with air dates, broadcast order, etc) go, I have a contact I might be able to get that information from, but with the pandemic, it might be awhile until folks are in their offices again. Once we have that, we can compare with what you've acquired and see if we can build something out of it.
In the meantime, I don't know what the solution for the two sandbox pages you've been working on are. I think a better approach would be to write out a guide for each episode. Again, we don't know what the proper organizational structure would look like for that yet, but maybe it's appropriate for the sandbox until we learn more.
One tip: please don't mix full URLs with wiki markup links. In fact, you don't need to use URLs at all if the link is going to an article on the wiki. To add a link to the Ernie article, just add brackets around it like this: [[Ernie]].
Hey there, thought I'd continue the PWMS discussion here. So, just thought I'd like to share with you this picture here that would be really useful in proving evidence for the broadcast date of an episode of the international version of PWMS, ep 252 to be precise. (Without Series code, Ep 78). Taken from Youku's print of that PWMS episode. (cropped out the Youku watermark for a more cleaner image)
Hi there, just feel free to address me as Chew. I really don't want to let out too much of my personal details.
So, regarding about the Play with Me Sesame episodes, I don't necessarily have a possesion of any episode copies of Play With Me Sesame, although I will say that I have a lot of accesibility to the episodes within my country. (Singapore) In my country and Malaysia, all episodes of Play With Me Sesame from Seasons 1 and 2 have been relased on 2- disc DVD box sets. (a total of 6, themed after the main characters from the show and even including strangely, Elmo and Cookie Monster, the former who only appears in the show via archived skits). But with these sets no longer in print and on sale, I had to resort to visiting local libraries and borrowing the DVD sets for reference. Unfortunately, Grover's set is not available in any of my country's libraries, which has made the search for the episodes harder. However, just recently, I found out that all the episodes of the entire series is available on the Chinese video streaming website Youku, (link: https://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzY4OTc1MjEzNg==.html?spm=a2h0k.11417342.soresults.dposter), allowing me to be able to look into these episodes more easily. However, the website is not be available in certain countries, which is a dissapointment for the fans of the show elsewhere in the world. Still, I do welcome for my episodes articles to be categorized into a new episode guide for this series.
P.S. I do apologize for any English errors I may have in both my articles and this comment.
We're aware of the home video releases of the show and have documented them on Play With Me Sesame videography. Most of the individual releases have their own pages.
However, I'm curious about how you're making the determination about which one is episode 101 and 102 if you're going by the home video releases. Our episode guide format dictates that the numbering match the broadcast order (or the production order if the former is inconsistent). So, for example, Episode 314: Green Card is numbered that way because it is the 14th episode of the 3rd season.
If you don't have access to the original broadcasts, it's better that we don't speculate about episodes, and focus rather on what was included on the home video releases.
About the episode lists, on the Youku page, the episodes have been categorised by thier episode order from top to bottom, considering that the webpage has indeed been given permission from Sesame Wokshop to release the episodes online. The same thing can be said for the other Sesame Street episodes and spin off series (Elmo's World and Elmo the Musical) available on the platform which has been arranged in the exact order of their original broadcast.Hence, I can be confident in noting the contents of each episode. To be even more precise on the DVD sets I talked about in the previous comment, Elmo's set came in first in 2012, followed by Bert's and then Ernie's that same year. The other 3 (Grover, Prairie Dawn and Cookie Monster) were released the follwing year. Elmo and Bert's sets were the Season 1 sets, with the remaining 4 containg the Season 2 episodes, evident by the episode formats and even performers present for the original content of the series. Also, I have checked the episode contents of the DVD sets and the disc print dates. Hence I can assure you that the episodes have the same order as the one on Youku, and that they are arranged exactly to their respective orders.
Linking to my pevious comment, I have associated the episode listing on Youku to the DVD sets. For example, using the Elmo set, all 7 episodes on the first disc have the exact same listing as the first 7 episodes of Season 1 on Youku. Likewise, using the Bert set which was the 2nd released set, the final episode of the 2nd disc is the same as the final episode of Season 1 on Youku. Even so, with Youku being a tight competitor with other video streaming companies globally, they have produced numerous original productions that have all been arranged according to order. hence, These factors do make me confident on the episode listing of the series.
Just in case you still don't belive me, I will feel free to show you all 7 episodes on Disc 1 of the Elmo set via Google Drive for you to compare it with the Youku listing if you have the acess to.
I think the only answer is that the aforementioned companies have the acess to the episodes from Sesame Workshop and are able to release them through the accurate order. With the programme being broadcasted globally, the numbering should be the exact episode order.
In our 14 years of running this wiki, that's not our experience. Streaming outlets often get these details wrong for various reasons. We need a more concrete source to verify the broadcast dates and/or the production order.
The versions you're basing them from are from the versions used in international markets and Sprout, not the original Noggin versions. The main way you can tell is that these new edits lack Prairie's art segment and use another classic Muppet bit to fill in the time.
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