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Is Ricco a Creature or is he simply a puppet built by Jim Henson's Creature Shop (like the cast of Stuffed and Unstrung, Pajanimals, or Me and My Monsters)? -- Brad D. (talk) 01:39, March 22, 2011 (UTC)

He fits our aesthetic standards for Creatures, which the examples you mention don't in any way. But personally I think this should be converted into a page for the commercials anyway, under Air New Zealand. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 02:24, March 22, 2011 (UTC)
Okay (I would have put him in the same category as the Me and My Monsters creatures, but its not worth agonizing over). I think switching this to a page about the commercials rather than the character makes more sense either way. And so would this qualify Snoop Dogg as a Creature Shop Actor now? -- Brad D. (talk) 04:03, March 22, 2011 (UTC)
Ugh. This is why I don't want to cover Henson's post-2005 output. I think we treat this the way that we treat post-2005 stuff: one page. There is nothing about this that makes it worth more than one page on Muppet Wiki. -- Danny @fandom (talk) 04:34, March 22, 2011 (UTC)
Right now we only have one page - this page. I don't think any one is proposing that we create any more pages for Air New Zealand or Ricco. The questions here are more should this be a character page (Ricco) or a company page (Air New Zealand); and then how do we categorize it (and related people already on the wiki). -- Brad D. (talk) 04:43, March 22, 2011 (UTC)
Oh, sorry -- I thought you were proposing that we create a Snoop Dogg page -- I didn't click through and forgot that we already had one.
It's not completely clear from the article, but my guess is that the Creature Shop created the puppet, but they aren't producing the commercials -- it's work for hire for an advertising company. So the closest analogue is the Honey Monster. We make a page for the character, because that's the Creature Shop involvement. Snoop Dogg doesn't get the Creature Shop Actor cat, because he isn't an actor in a Creature Shop production. -- Danny @fandom (talk) 05:09, March 22, 2011 (UTC)

I've always been confused on some of the Creature Shop stuff; doesn't having a Creature Shop puppet make these commercials Creature Shop productions? We classify Eddie Murphy, Christopher Walken, Jack Black, Zooey Deschanel, and Dann Florek as "Creature Shop actors" when they simply appeared in films alongside Creature Shop puppets (they acted in productions where Henson created the puppets, but Henson wasn't producing). Why wouldn't we classify Snoop Dogg as a "Creature Shop actor" when he too acted in a production alongside a Creature Shop puppet? -- Brad D. (talk) 12:57, March 22, 2011 (UTC)

Honestly, it confuses me too. I think Andrew is the person who understands it. :) -- Danny @fandom (talk) 16:39, March 22, 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, it's based on interaction with the Creatures specifically, per our discussion last June, which you participated in here (some of the items on the "maybe" list still haven't been checked and may need deleting, or others that I overlooked), but this was all regarding Creature Shop *Movie* Actors. We don't use "Creature Shop Actors" as a catch all and don't really need a "Creature Shop Commercials Actors" category for Snoop. He already has a home as a celeb. Plus he's really not in there as an actor but as himself.
At most, we'd stick him in Category:Commercials Actors which right now is defined as those who appeared with the Muppets (since generally the Creature Shop commercials involve few other actors and almost never someone we can ID, and Honey Monster never hung with Mick Jagger, say). That category is a mix of people who aren't celebs but acted/voiced in Muppet commercials/promos and are neat to note, celebs whose only real connection is commercials, and celebs who did both, and I'm not sure if it's all inclusive on that score, but that's another discussion if we want to mess with it (compared to the movies, where appearances as self are just Category:Muppet Movies Cameos, it's too small to really make it worth bothering with). So either stick him in that category with a slight amendment or (apart from noting it on the page) just leave Snoop categorized as is. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 01:26, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
Cool, that makes sense to me. -- Danny @fandom (talk) 16:40, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
I'll edit the category def when I get a chance. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 17:25, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
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