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Muppet Movie

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At the resturaunt in The Muppet Movie, Kermit and Piggy are served wine in tall glasses. When Kermit asks the waiter for straws, the waiter replies, "Of course. I was expecting that."
I never took this joke to be a reference to the characters being puppets, but rather the rude waiter assuming and asserting that Kermit and Piggy were the unsophisticated type that would drink wine through a straw (not a far stretch being that they ordered a 95-cent bottle-capped wine from Idaho). -- Brad D. (talk) 03:29, December 26, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't see that as a "being puppets" reference either (for that matter, he's serving a frog and a pig, so....). I'm taking it out. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 03:45, December 26, 2011 (UTC)

Flying Fairy School

At the end of the "Pinocchio Process" episode of Abby's Flying Fairy School, Blogg comments to the camera that "he loves puppets" and winks. Should that count, despite the fact that the segment is CGI? - Oscarfan 21:48, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

It might otherwise be a stretch, but it sounds like they're pretty obviously trying to make a joke out of it. —Scott (talk) 15:49, December 18, 2009 (UTC)

should this count?

In Episode 2784, Mr. Snuffleupagus plays with a puppet, who gives Bob orders, and at one point Bob says that he can't beleive he is taking orders from apuppet. Should this count as a reference to the Muppets being puppets? I haven't actually seen the epsidoe or clip, so I'm only going by what's on the page. --Minor muppetz 23:08, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't count it, no. Snuffy's puppet was a recurring character, and while there's always a certain in-joke aspect to any Muppet operating their own puppet, Bob's line doesn't really mean anything, unless he regularly took orders from the Muppets, which he didn't. If he'd said something like "I've never *talked* to a puppet before," it might count. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 23:11, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
How about this one: there was an episode where Telly meets his Fairy Godmonster for the first time and, misunderstanding her intentions, says: "you're going to turn me from a puppet into a real, live boy." Garrettk41 01:40, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Which episode? —Scott (talk) 01:43, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
The one where he gets a magic pencil. Garrettk41 03:07, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
I don't know what that means. Are you recalling this from memory? —Scott (talk) 04:12, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
This ought to help: Garrettk41 23:12, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Let the Discussion Begin!

So, what does everybody think about this page? Can anybody think of a better title? --Minor muppetz 03:43, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I like the idea for this page, but I can't think of a better title, other than something like "Muppets talking about being puppets", or "Muppet references to being puppets". Actually, I was wondering about something. Would this be the right place to mention the sketch where Fozzie tells Kermit, "There's somebody underneath me!"? I forget where it's from, but there's a clip of it at the beginning of The World of Jim Henson, and there's a picture from it on the Today on Muppet Wiki Nominations page. I've been wondering where this came from for years. Thanks! -- Ken (talk) 05:47, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
We might use the phrase "Breaking the fourth wall". -- Danny (talk) 16:41, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
"Breaking the fourth wall" would apply to a number of situations other than the characters refering to themselves as puppets. Like whenever Sesame Street characters talk to "you kids at home". I like the title "Breaking the fourth wall," but unless you want to add all those other situations to the page, I'm not sure it works. --Justin 17:09, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Well, it could be "Puppets Breaking the Fourth Wall." All I know is, I don't like the current title one bit; it's awkward and vague. Also, where would we put this? It can't stay in sandbox forever, and we revamped Category:Lists so it can't just be plunked in. Behind the Scenes, like Inside Jokes? -- Andrew Leal (talk) 17:21, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
How about "Breaking the fifth wall"? -- Danny (talk) 18:19, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
"Muppets breaking the fourth wall by refering to themselves as puppets within the Muppet universe where they would actually be living creatures instead of just puppets" Yes? No? I was just thinking it could be something along the lines of "Puppet Mentions", but as I was typing that last title out, I forgot what I was going to reccomend. "Puppet Mentions within Muppet Productions?" I don't remember. --Justin 22:54, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Considering that clip shown in The World of Jim Henson (which I've heard comes from Here Come the Puppets), when I started this page I mainly meant productions where the characters make some sort of reference to being puppets (or lack therof) in non-behind the scenes situations. I don't know if it should count to include times where they directly mention being puppets (like in The Muppets on Puppets or "Secrets of the Muppets"). --Minor muppetz 23:39, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
I guess this could be thought of as a kind of inside joke, where we know that we're watching a puppet show, but we're willing to suspend our disbelief, in the same way that an animated feature isn't real, but we pretend that it is, and become emotionally involved in the story. And somehow it's funny to wonder if the puppets know they're puppets, and wonder who all those people are, who are walking around under them. I would say make a section in "Inside Jokes", about the whole self-referential nature of the Muppet universe, such as The Electric Mayhem reading the screenplay of The Muppet Movie to find Kermit and his friends, or Kermit telling people in Caper that they're trying to make a movie. I guess this could be expanded to include jokes about the Muppets' very existence as inanimate objects. I have no idea if any of that made sense. -- Ken (talk) 05:26, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

I like the idea of listing instances of the Muppets referencing the fact they are puppets. However expanding a list of fourth-wall-breaking or self-awareness past that could lead to problems. There was some talk about such a topic back in May 2006 -- see Talk:Muppets Breaking the Fourth Wall. -- Brad D. (talk) 06:47, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

I like the list of puppet references too... I wish we could come up with a decent name for the article. -- Danny (talk) 11:43, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
I was just thinking of two: "Muppet References to Puppetry" or "Muppets Mentioning Puppetry"... or just "Muppet Mentions of Puppets". I dunno. This is a really hard article to find a catchy title for. If it weren't already taken, we could have called it "Muppets on Puppets". --Justin 16:56, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, "Muppets on Puppets" would have been great. "Muppets Mentioning Puppetry" is close, though, better than this (though Dinosaurs is also included). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:20, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
That's true. I think it works better having Muppets in the title, though. If the word "Muppets" does end up in the title, maybe it could just make note of it in the article. Something like "although the references in this page refer primarily to Muppet moments, references to puppets in Dinosaurs productions have been included as well." Maybe it could be added "to save on space" or something like that.
Are we against the word "reference" in the title? I kinda like "Muppets Reference Puppets" or something like that. --Justin 01:02, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
How about "Muppets talk Puppets", or even "Puppets talk Puppets"? -- Wendy (talk) 01:26, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
We could have Muppets in the title, even with Dinosaurs examples. Muppets eating other Muppets includes examples from Dinosaurs (and also examples of human guest stars either attempting to eat a Muppet or Muppets attempting to eat the guets stars). --Minor muppetz 21:52, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Maybe this article could be called "Puppet References". --Minor muppetz 13:04, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

If Solid Foam qualifies, how about Howard Handupme? Daibhid C 22:03, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

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