Talk: Save the Muppets

Steve on the MuppetCast

Can anyone get a quote from when Steve Whitmire talked about the America's Got Talent recast on The MuppetCast? I recall his also briefly described the studio's current position on the issue of recasting too. -- Brad D. (talk) 15:01, November 12, 2010 (UTC)

Rumor

This article is currently in the rumors category. The article is about a fan campaign/petition/website. What's the rumor here? -- Brad D. (talk) 16:19, November 4, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, it might not be immediately evident, but I think this article is about more than just the fan campaign. It's also about what was happening on a production level with the Muppets. Would they be recast? Would there be multiple performers? If that "rumor" aspect isn't clear enough on the page, there's plenty of stuff I can dig up from the fan forums (a place we wouldn't normally go for information, but given the nature of the topic, is suitable here). — scarecroe 18:40, November 4, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, that aspect of the topic isn't really prominent right now. It just really focuses on the campaign and not the behind the scenes rumored effects/motives. Information about what was (or was not) going on behind the scenes at Muppets Stuido would make this a clearer rumor article, right now there is very little of that covered here. Maybe even tying it into Artie Esposito's performances of Kermit last year (I know Steve Whitmire talked about it on The MuppetCast) and other sources would be worthwhile. -- Brad D. (talk) 13:49, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

I've started working on expanding the article to cover the whole situation a bit more. -- Brad D. (talk) 15:01, November 12, 2010 (UTC)

Opposing Views

Right now, this passage has a cite tag: "The campaign does not represent every Muppet fan; some fans feel that multiple puppeteers should be allowed the opportunity to perform the Muppet characters." I'm not exactly sure what the problem is with the statement, except perhaps the second "some fans" part, and I don't know if its worthwhile to try to dig up old Muppet Central posts. Outside of that, it would be impossible to cite a "source" for the fact that others may disagree. The statement itself seems to come from the very first discussion on this page. Is there a way to rework this? If not, we might as well just remove it, since better to have no acknowledgement of opposing views than a vague statement with a honking cite tag. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 08:52, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, it's a tough thing to have in there. We usually don't allow sentences about fans' feelings or ideas -- they're weasel words that allow contributors to add their own point of view. However, in an article that's about Muppet fans, it might be relevant. I wish there was a website or something that we could link to. Was it ever mentioned in a Muppet Central article? -- Danny (talk) 12:47, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Not so far as I know. The best we could come up with would probably be some message board thread, and I personally don't really feel like hunting that up and then sifting through comments, not today anyway. It's just that I came across this while trying to take care of some cite tags, and this struck me as the kind of thing which, if we're to include it, shouldn't have a cite tag, so I'm trying to figure out how to deal with it. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 14:10, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Like the Parente and Whitmire quotes, I think the best we can do is cite it with media sources. If there aren't any, there aren't any. —Scott (talk) 14:43, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

I think the point is made here on the talk page, at least. -- Danny (talk) 15:15, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

The Vandal

Wow, our regular vandal managed to get his edit visible for a whole 20 minutes. Good work there, Mr. Vandal!

But seriously, maybe it's time to lock the page down for a while until this guy gives up. --Erik Ebrowne 18:06, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, that's a good idea. Obviously, it's not hard to revert the change, but it's an annoying distraction. I'll protect it. Thanks, Erik! -- Danny Toughpigs 19:27, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

NPOV

I added a blurb about Sesame Workshop's public acknowledgement of the "One Muppet One Performer" campaign, but User:Ebrowne removed it for non-NPOV. The wiki standpoint is still neutral, it's simply a citation of Sesame Workshop's commentary on the subject. Any real facts that sway the other direction are also welcome so long as they're not the opinion of the contributors. -- Scott Scarecroe 00:12, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

The word "victory" might be suggestive of a bias on the wiki's part. Also, the fan campaign is alluded to but not mentioned by name. Maybe we could switch it to read something along the lines of "The Save the Muppets was indirectly referred to in the press when..." The article is obviously newsworthy and deserves mention here, but it's all in the presentation, I guess. What do you think?--Pantalones 00:19, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree to that. -- Scott Scarecroe 00:28, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I took another pass at it. I think "victory" is pretty loaded, and it's speculation anyway. We don't know whether Parente is directly referring to STM or not. (I feel like she probably is, but I don't know for sure.) I changed the page -- now it just says, here's something that was said. The NPOV principle is that we say what we know, and then we leave the interpretation up to the reader.

I also think it's important to include the separate paragraph about fans who disagree with the STM campaign. I actually wish I could flesh that piece out a little more -- I'm not sure I have a good handle on what the non-STM fan is actually thinking about the current situation, so I did my best with that sentence. Considering that the people who have worked on the article are co-founders of STM, it's important for us to at least try to put together a balanced article. -- Danny Toughpigs 01:27, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

The Other View

Should there be a breif mention that Saving the Muppets from replacement puppeteers is not the veiw held by all Muppet Fans? Or, since it is a Save the Muppets article, should this be left as it is with no mention of the other side of the argument? -- Mat B Regard

That's a good question. It's tricky, because it's such a sore question, and I wouldn't want the article to turn into a back-and-forth about all the arguments. My intention was to be brief and factual, just saying what Save the Muppets was, and what the campaign is trying to do. I think the Neutral Point of View standard suggests that another brief paragraph on other fans' responses would be a good idea. Let's see what happens! -- Toughpigs 16:42, 14 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Ok. I shall just add a small paragraph then. And perhaps find a safe place to hide afterwards...Feel free to edit it anyone, by the way. -- Mat B Regard

I think it could be more explicit than that... What you put up is really vague. -- Toughpigs 17:35, 14 Dec 2005 (UTC)