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  • Well, Special:WantedPages is back to only seven single-page links (mainly from over 60 additions on Sesame Street episodes with recycled plots and the like). That makes it harder to find easy to fill in redlinks (book authors) as well as cleanup (deleted pages, old spam, misspellings, hypotheticals on discussions, formatting errors in linking images to pages, etc.) This recurring problem has two causes.

    One, the 1000 entry limit on Wanted Pages (and the "Exclude titles" box to try to filter out, say, all those with "episode" has been broken on all Wikia/Fandom sites since at least April 2018). The other, List of Sesame Street episodes includes every episode as a redlink. That means the moment one is placed for another purpose (usually for ekas, which is a good use of it), it goes up the list and pushes entries off the page. We've never unlinked anything from that page, and doing so would throw off the template which uses the number of redlinks for its calculations.

    Eventually (it usually takes months), the number of double linked episodes will go down again. Until then, I'd like to temporarily delink. Is anyone actively planning to work on Season 7 or Season 12 in the near future? Redlinks were added to them in October and November, and I don't mess with eka redlinks or even those on writers pages. But cleaning up number parkings without details would help for now, as would Sandbox:Early Elmo Performer Transitions. It will at least free up maybe a dozen or two slots for now.

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    • Sorry 'bout that!

      There's not really much we can do about the links involved in the EKA/First templates, but at the very least, I would be fine with unlinking the "List of Sesame...episodes" page ones.

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    • Yeah, honestly, that would be the easiest solution (apart from users checking the totals, I don't think it's that helpful as far as editors building the guides or even for general reference, since there's no room for descriptions or other details). The main issue would just be figuring out how to tweak that episode totals calculating template (or taking it out).

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    • Aleal wrote: Yeah, honestly, that would be the easiest solution (apart from users checking the totals, I don't think it's that helpful as far as editors building the guides or even for general reference, since there's no room for descriptions or other details). The main issue would just be figuring out how to tweak that episode totals calculating template (or taking it out).

      The meter template doesn't reflect anything on the page; it's based on the "Sesame Episodes" and "Episode Guide" categories.

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    • What I meant is that block of code there (which I thought was a template) with the totals color coded. But the red could just be switched to black and hopefully still work. I really don't understand that thing.

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    • Can we just ignore the episode links on WantedPages? They're all coming soon.

      It would help if multiple folks could submit a ticket about the "Exclude titles" feature on Special:WantedPages that hasn't worked in over a year. I submitted a ticket about it in February of 2018; they told me it was low priority to fix, but that it was on their radar. I've followed up on it several times over the past year (as recently as last week), and they're still responding with the same "we'll get to it" message. If more people than just me where bugging them about it, they might do something. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, etc.

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    • I'll try to send a ticket myself this week [EDIT: In fact, I did it tonight], but until it's fixed, there's no way of ignoring them. (Outside of just giving up on using WantedPages to find redlinks on single pages).

      So the other options are either just wait however many months it takes, try delinking in areas that really aren't being used for anything but just advance parking lists on seasons from months ago, or delink that episode list. (Or if anyone can fill in any Jimmy Dean episode redlinks; those aren't helping either, all multiples thanks to duplication on the main show page, the category, and the RFD-TV pages). Right now, there's been a slight rise, so nine pages are showing. Given the rates last time, maybe three to four months before it reaches twelve to twenty one-page links showing again, at minimum. (Possibly sooner, since Shane's been filling in quite a bit, but it will still take months to get over sixty episode pages.)

      Looking at the Jimmy Dean Show redlinks again, that's 30. I don't have TV right now, but I'll see if I still have any saved or burned. The problem there is just access, but the pages are a lot simpler than the Sesame ones and don't rely on interpreting archival/script notations and so on.

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    • I'm okay with removing all the FIRST and EKA templates from Sesame Street episode pages. I still think it's a better method of tracking not only what a sketch's first appearance was, but every episode that used the sketch.

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    • I know that this was something discussed already, but maybe we just make pages for those redlinked episodes and just list the segment(s) that originated in it, and they'll be fully fleshed out eventually.

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    • My only concern with that is some of our more eager editors jumping on and adding pages without sources and all the monitoring that would tie us up with.

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    • Right now, even changing First and EKAs templates won't do too much as far as the Wanted Pages issue. It will reduce some entries from six links to three, but in most cases won't actually take them off (it's that List and some of those parked entries; outside of ekas, there's also a bunch for writers like Mark Saltzman, so I don't know if it's possible to do a basic "Plot and writer" stub for some of them).

      Shane's suggestion would be more effective. Setting up clear guidelines for placeholder pages based on redlinks and how those pages should look would help with monitoring concerns.

      One possible criteria by now, given how many redlinks there are: only create placeholders when there's more than one segment known. "A cartoon with a cat and 10" or whatever isn't much better than a redlink, but two or more are something (possible exceptions for, say, a first or only known celebrity appearance or something, but sticking to multiples seems like the safest rule; by now, even if we made three the minimum, that would still knock some links off). No speculation on sponsors allowed. No tables since order isn't known. And any "Is this the date?" or whatever queries placed on the master thread *first*. That's just off the top of my head.

      Exceeding boundaries means forfeiting the privilege to work on those redlinks (which for several of our established eager editors, would be sufficient). The driveby or returning nuts, we get already (mostly on "Elmo's World" pages) so that wouldn't make much difference there.

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    • Update: Heard back from tech support. Yeah, they said it's a "niche issue" that's hard to prioritize, "but it's clearly being a problem for your wiki.. Hopefully we'll be able to take a look at it sooner rather than later."

      So not the most encouraging but sounds like possibly a slight step up.

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    • After thinking about this a bit, I'm coming around to the idea of creating placeholder pages for all the Sesame episode redlinks.

      It technically violates our policy of not creating pages for something when there's no new information, but at least we know broadcast dates, so that's something. Coupled with the knowledge that we know all these are becoming proper guides in the coming months, it will also give us the opportunity to properly get the page formatting going before folks begin making visits to the American Archive of Public Broadcasting.

      But more specifically, it will address the issue of clutter on Special:Wantedpages; Fandom has been pushing off a fix for the "exclude titles" feature for a year now, and I don't see it getting fixed any time soon (or, ever; I looked at some non-Fandom wikis, and it's not even an option, so this is apparently a very niche thing).

      I just want to be sure some of our more eager editors are still held to the same standard of showing sources and not getting too enthusiastic adding details that can't be easily verified... so, in adherence with the rest of our Muppet Wiki:Policies and Guidelines.

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    • I figured we'll start a housekeeping thread first, as we have with some of the other community projects that require more care. What do you think about limiting it to links with at least two (or three) segments, to avoid pure stubs at least at first? (Whichever number we go with, we can always go down later if it's working out).

      And yeah, the main thing as usual is to remind users of both verification and collaboration (checking with others and complying with any limits set by admins).

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    • Yeah, the "at least two" thing is something I had in mind if/when we wanted to implement something, especially because a lot of our non-Muppet segment descriptions aren't very descriptive at all, thus don't make for a whole lot to include in an article. At the very least in an instance like that, we could beef up the description of the bit.

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    • I figured we'd just bang em all out at once. At least in my head, it makes sense to go sequential, and I feel like it would go faster and more efficiently.

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    • Should we use the "trusted" tag? Even though they're not full guides, the information is technically based off the stuff from the source.

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    • Nah, I would would wait until we make the guide from the scripts unless we're using something that came from another guide sourced as trusted. We'd already pretty successfully determined air dates before the scripts anyway.

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    • Looking at the earliest redlink, for episode 0538 (another link to a page with over 20 redlinks makes no difference), it was previously deleted when a blocked user created it, with one entry, the Ernie and Bert sit behind a lady with a tall hat one. Now, there's that and also "Here and There." So a lot of the entries may already have at least two.

      At the very least though (since creating less than coherent or informative stubs helps nobody), we should make sure that any still unidentified "Film/Sand/60 sec" type entries either be saved for the full guide or noted only with something else, since you can't even get a sentence out of those.

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    • I just started on season 5. I'll also take 7, 9, and 12 to start so we don't overlap each other.

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    • Right now I'm working on filling in the stubs (i.e. Episode 0388).

      (And of course if we admins get most of it done, that also leaves less to be concerned about users going overboard).

      Just for the record, a few (like Episode 0591) aren't linked from anywhere except List of Sesame Street episodes, so they'll be blank until someone with script access gets to them. (Only downside to going in order).

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    • I'm okay with that. We know we're making an exception in this case on the understanding that they're coming in the following months.

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    • Sound like we have our work plan figured out then. Yay!

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    • Looks like WantedPages is all pretty much cleared up for ya' now.

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    • Done. Having placeholders is also beneficial for marking which ones are repeats. Hopefully that will keep us from writing a guide more than once.

      I'm going back now and filling in some writers.

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    • Kudos to you guys for making all those pages that will eventually be filled in. But I'm a little sad that Scott decided to get rid of tracking the redlinks in the List of Sesame Street episodes page. I think that page should still show that there are a few redlinks, since there will be future episodes, and the best part of that page was seeing the percentage numbers for the full episode guides, the partial episodes and the redlinks, and those percentage numbers are gone from that page now. How do you guys feel about it?

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    • I added the percentages back; I think that might have been a mistake on Scott's part.

      As for the redlinks, I assume you're referring to the Key at the top. I mean, having an extra thing there would really only apply to future episodes/seasons, which is also just a temporary issue.

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    • Point taken. Thank you for putting the percentages back.

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    • I'm glad we figured out something that worked, and thanks also to cleaning up some old project links and filling holes (thanks, Shane, Scott, and Wendy especially), Wanted Pages is fully workable again.

      And I just fixed a page linking to "Oscat the Grouch."

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    • My bad on the percentages. Brad built that template, so I wasn't familiar with the code and must have removed too much.

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    • A FANDOM user
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