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I'd like to propose a new feature on the wiki that I've been thinking about for a while. Basically, it would be a category housing an article for every day of the year.
I started User:Scarecroe/Dates for my own reference when posting on our Facebook and Twitter feeds, but I think we can do a lot more.
Other wikis have had success with this, and I submit the following examples: Memory Alpha (Star Trek), TARDIS (Doctor Who), and Wookiepedia (Star Wars).
We started Category:Timeline when the wiki was only a month old, and it houses every year the Muppets have been in existence. If someone at that time had proposed we do an article for every day of the year, I'd have said they were crazy. But we've been doing this nearly 15 years now, just passed 37,000 articles, and know a lot more about dates than we ever did (every airdate for all 4,500+ episodes of Sesame Street, for example).
I think keeping the years is still a good idea. It's valuable to want to see what else was happening in 1985 or whatever. But I also think we have more than enough information to offer the same solution if someone were curious to see what else happened in Muppet history on, say, October 3rd.
Before moving forward, we should decide what to include and what not to. I think everything in my /Dates page and everything currently in the timeline is game. So, premieres, birthdays, anniversaries, etc. We don't cover celebrity dates of birth, but would it be worthwhile to do so on a date page for someone with a significant connection to the Muppets? Say a Julie Andrews or a Whoopi Goldberg, for example?
Some of these pages would be shorter than others, but we have plenty of valuable short articles and I think it's acceptable to treat this category as more a list of facts (short or long) than a series of fleshed-out articles written in prose. Also, just having them at all offers us the opportunity to decide what else we might want to include in the future.
Benefits beyond the ability to browse the category include: linking the dates from other articles (would this be too much?), having a reference point for social media (not just our own feed, but anyone who uses the wiki including other blogs like ToughPigs and official channels who use us as a resource), and I'm pretty sure I can whip something up for the front page that would automatically link to today's date and maybe even show a preview of its contents.
So, thoughts and feedback are welcome. New contributors please note the forum rules and that forum discussions are reserved for regular editors.<ac_metadata title="Every Day of the Year"> </ac_metadata>
Oscarfan wrote: What kind of format would we go for these?
I was thinking a ==Header== for each year.
Muppetspot wrote: if we have unknown dates for products
This is for days, not years.
Multiple Connection people sounds like a good rule.
Sidebar: someone who works for Sesame Workshop once asked me which celebrity had appeared most on Sesame Street, and although I couldn't give a definitive answer based on data, I was pretty sure it was Whoopi Goldberg. To that end, I've also been thinking of sandboxing a page for celebrities with more than "x" amount of connections. That would serve as a good tie-in for the dates pages.
As for deaths, I agree it should be limited. We would want to note Jim, Jane, Richard Hunt, and anyone who's worked within the Muppets. But if we're doing birthdays for Bob Hope, etc, I'm not opposed to including the commemoration of their passing either unless someone feels really strongly about it.
Just started Celebrities with multiple Muppet connections.
Good point. Sorry, Carmen Electra.
As far as merchandise releases go, I think rather than breaking down what we should and shouldn't include, we just say the same rules apply to the dates pages as the article for the merchandise itself.
So, if we have a solid source for a book or DVD release, I say let's include it. But, as Andrew noted, a lot of the older ones are really hard to pin down and sources are mixed on exact dates. So, just as we leave those out of the articles, we'd leave them out here as well.
Agreed.
Everyone loves Pie.
I just created Sandbox:Date search as a means to search the wiki for specific dates.
This is meant as a tool to help us find what else we might want to include. Hopefully this doesn't encourage some of our casual enthusiastic editors to get too obsessive over this. We're still figuring out how to lay this thing out.
Similar fun stuff in the See Also section of my Dates file that I've used for social media posts in the past.
Thoughts on January 1?
I'm not opposed to that.
The header would come out eventually. But I figured it's good to have while we develop this.
Also, found a couple January 1st birthdays: Juliana Donald and Frank Langella. Langella would be nice to have, but I can live without. JD on the other hand, has a major role in a Muppet movie, so I wonder if we should include people like that.
That's a good idea. Done.
Aleal wrote: (I'm not really wild about including every one-time movie cameo person).
Same; I can do without that.
That's not too many; I feel that's a good distinction.
Agreed. Also, re: Ruth Buzzi above, I think we had her covered anyway as a regular cast member.
All pages are ready to go with the proper sorting at Category:Dates which includes an organized chart. Should we have some kind of category description? I'm thinking something like "Dates noting premieres, production starts, releases, birthdays, holidays..." (anything else?) And then maybe linking to this thread for now until we get the category into the swing of things.
Aleal wrote: I just tacked on something close to that, to see how it looks with the dates below. Feel free to tweak!
Love it!
Minor muppetz wrote: How should we handle series premiers?
For example, for the premier of Sesame Street, should we just write "Sesame Street Episode 0001", or should we write it as something like "Sesame Street premiers"?
Omitting the episode number can sometimes be confusing at a glance, but I like the idea of saying a series or even a season premiere. What about, Sesame Street premieres with Episode 0001 ?
Also, a couple of weird anomalies.
Category:Dates isn't showing populated articles right now (aside from the manual links I placed there) but they were last night. I thought it might have been the addition of __NOCATEGORYGALLERY__ but I tested it and that's not it. May just be a caching thing, so I'll wait it out.
Also, as I add the 366 new pages last night, I didn't see the article number count go up, so I made a note to compare numbers this morning since sometimes those numbers take some time to populate. It was 37,008 when I went to bed, so I expected to see 37,374 this morning. However, current count appears to be 37,740. That's a difference of 732, or twice as many as the 366 expected. Not sure what's going on there. One guess is that the software is counting blank talk pages for some reason. But again, may be best to wait and see if things settle.
Do you mean the navigation box seen at the bottom of pages like this? — Episode 102: Walk the Walk
I know we use those those on episode guides, but I'm not sure how practical it is for someone to click through 366 dates from start to finish. It's much more likely that they'll just go to the category and browse from there.
Good timing on the production dates topic. I was just thinking about this on my way home from work.
I think production dates are absolutely notable for this space. For example, because there's no single premiere date for any episode of The Muppet Show, we've always placed a lot of value on the production dates. So yeah, I think we should include them for most things.
However, we're already including the broadcast dates for Sesame Street episodes, I think another 4,500+ entries for each production date is too much. With one exception: if it was for a notable episode or event, I think we should include it. Take, for example, the fact that Grant noted the date when Kevin Clash first performed Elmo.
As for HBO and PBS dates, I don't think re-runs are notable. We don't bother with the Noggin premiere date of Sesame Street re-runs, I think the PBS dates are basically the same thing. So, no, just the first broadcast of a Sesame episode.
Also, just a note about dates that fall on the first of the month: we should be wary of them.
Oftentimes, when databases only have access to the year that something happened, they'll default to January 1 of that year for placement purposes. Same goes for when a month is known, but not the date.
So, the Ed Koch photo may have actually been taken on June 1, 1983, or all they had to go on was "June 1983" and defaulted to the first.
Not saying this is always the case, obviously, just that we should be aware that this is an issue.
Minor muppetz wrote:
What if something aired on multiple channels and had significant alterations,That's a pretty niche situation. I don't know if even the Emmett Otter alterations are significant enough to note that a "new version" of this was "seen for the first time."
If there were anything in Muppet history among the likes of a brand new, significantly different cut of a movie that had later been released (like Apocalypse Now Redux, Richard Donner's Superman II, or The Snyder Cut), then I'd say, yeah, maybe.
Back to items that are recurring, are we sure that "Holidays" covers it? What about character birthdays?
Cool. I like "Annually" better than Holidays or Observances.
What are the recurring events on February 29?
Aleal wrote: We don't. I feel (like with holidays that don't fall on the same date every year) that's something we can leave to the actual calendars. Since our goal is to note events or items relevant to the Muppets, rather than being a practical day planner.
Good point. 
ProfessorTofty wrote: Are we going to add images to the pages like the year pages?
Potentially. Let's focus on populating the pages with content for now.
Just a reminder that we're not linking show titles, just the episode.
Also an update: our article count seems to have balanced back out at 37,375. Weird anomaly but all seems to be back in order.
Two reasons why I don't think it works:
1) Sesame Street Episode 2457 blends together visually as one link. The important piece here is the episode, not the show. So if the link appears to be one item to click on, you're going to get some frustrated readers landing on the wrong page.
2) The reason it's being listed at all is for the episode. The date isn't significant to the show as a whole. The episode is what we're highlighting in this case.
Okay, I just finished crawling the database (from a version backed up on June 23) for all date matches and added them to Sandbox:Date search.
Every date page now has the option to use Google to search the wiki for that date and also a link to the sandbox page with a list of matches. The latter of which, again, omits superfluous stuff picked up by Google like forum comments and Wikia ads.
This, of course, doesn't include date references that have been formatted as 4/1/1978, but I don't think those are very common outside of maybe cited sources (which aren't useful for this project anyway).
Anyway, in some cases, we're picking out our favorite dates and adding a few items. These tools will help us be comprehensive in noting as many events as possible.
I tried to make it very clear in multiple places that not all dates are appropriate for inclusion on these pages.
1) It's in bold here: Sandbox:Date search
2) It's in bold on the thread that gave everyone on the wiki a notification: Thread:296276
3) And it's in the very thread you're reading now; the one that each date page explicitly asks everyone to read before editing the page; the one where we discussed at length what to include and what not to include.
So, let's be very clear: NOT EVERY DATE ON THE WIKI IS APPROPRIATE TO INCLUDE ON THE DATE PAGES. If there's a question as to whether or not something should be included — just like anything else on the wiki — please ask.
Use some common sense. As Andrew said, if the date seems like something that fits the spirit of what we're trying to accomplish (as discussed here), then probably. If you're not sure, ask.
If you're not sure about the formatting, usually the best course of action — just like every other page on the wiki — is to look at a similar page, see how that's formatted, and copy it. This is how I taught myself html in grade school (back when you still needed to know html).
I think it's enough that we're tracking forthcoming projects on their respective page. We should wait to add them to the timeline. That makes fewer pages we need to remember to update later if the date changes. Also, there's 60+ years of Muppet history, so there's no lack of stuff to fill these pages up with.
Yeah. Spending more time cleaning up the wiki rather than actually working on the project is becoming a problem. I feel like we take a lot of effort to spell things out as simply as possible and we're as patient as you can expect busy people to be. But still people refuse to follow the guidelines. We shouldn't have to make a policy page about every single category on the wiki. Folks who have been here long enough should know better, and new editors have no excuse to not follow the rules when we've very plainly provided them with guidance. I have a few thoughts on how to approach this, but it's an off-wiki conversation for the admins. In the meantime, please people, just use some common sense.
I think all TV appearances are fair game.
I've added a link to the top of Special:Recentchanges to filter out everything but the dates articles. That and the Sesame episode guide project are hot areas on the wiki right now, so I thought they'd be helpful here.
I suppose so. Wikipedia has them too.
What kind of format would we go for these?
Maybe limit what kind of celebrities based on their interaction? Like guest on TV show or movie cameo is noteworthy; interaction on red carpet or some other event is not.
I'm digging it. 365 new pages might be hard to constantly update, but that's for another time.
One suggestion: maybe notate the show in front of each episode (we don't have to link it).
I like it! I took out the category gallery; seemed unhelpful in this case.
The Wiki is a collaborative effort! There's no assignments.
Do we want to make a "Muppet Wiki:Dates"-type thing to establish the rules of what is/isn't worth notating on these (or put that on one of the other policy/style pages)?
How should we handle series premiers?
For example, for the premier of Sesame Street, should we just write "Sesame Street Episode 0001", or should we write it as something like "Sesame Street premiers"?
For things like current episodes of Sesame Street, which premier on PBS nine months after their HBO (and soon HBO Max) premier, should we note both dates or just the original HBO air dates? If we go with both, maybe just note the premier for HBO and then for the original PBS airings say "Sesame Street Episode xxxx makes it's PBS premier".
Sorry about that.
What about known taping dates for Sesame Street inserts?
Again with the multiple premier dates topic: What if something aired on multiple channels and had significant alterations, with the CBC, HBO, and ABC broadcasts of Emmet Otter's Jug-Band Christmas, or the separate premier dates for Big Bird's Birthday or Let Me Eat Cake - meaning the specials original date (as a special, with pledge drive) and its premier date in the shows usual timeslot, with episode number, additional segments and removal of the pledge drive sequence.
Of course I wouldn't expect the premiers of all broadcasts that use notable alterations (I wouldn't expect us to note the HBO and HBO Max premiers of classic Sesame Street episodes with removed or replaced segments, though it would probably be good enough to note when they started airing them).
Can we make an exception if there was only a pilot and no further episodes?
Cjahero wrote: Is there a piticular order or whatever we have to edit the wiki? Like say Scott edited the 23rd of March, do I have to work on that one with him, or can I work on another page, and can they page be any page or are we assinged to a page or whatever? Does this question make sense? Pretty much can we edit a date page at any time or are they assinged to us?
I haven't seen anything here that says we have to do it in daily order or whatever order. Many of us seem to be doing our favorites. Many of the dates I've listed are things that I almost always know off-hand, in addition to stuff on June 1 (my birthday), the days for things I really like to acknowledge, and I have come across some dates on certain pages and decided to add those to the respective days of the year. And in a number of cases I did click to the Google results and added in one or two more things from that date (I keep clicking and then forgetting either the episode number or the year, I should probably keep another tab open).
Yeah, when looking at that sandbox page, I have clicked on the linked articles before putting them on the pages. In many cases I have been unable to find where the date is listed at on those pages.
For taping dates, since many productions were taped or filmed over the course of many days, should we just list the first production date? For example, every episode of The Muppet Show was taped over the course of three days. Should we note the episodes three times on all three days, or just list the start date? I haven't seen many instances of The Muppet Show production dates, but I have contributed a couple and just noted "The Muppet Show Episode xxx: Guest Star Name begins taping on this date". I wonder if we should just note the first taping date but also note there when taping ends.
In the case of not linking show titles, may we make an exception for something that doesn't have individual episode pages? I've noticed that web series' just have info on all episodes on the shows main pages.
I was going to note the premier for an episode of Fraggle Rock: Rock On!, then I went searching for more stuff and started caring less.
Should we always wait until whatever production or product has come out before noting them on a day, or is it okay to note days for things that have not come out yet but have a confirmed date in the future?
I had wondered about how to handle the Land of Gorch appearances. I also wondered this for a lot of the early television guest appearances. I've mostly listed guest appearances that include familiar enough characters or performers, not too sure about guest appearances with really minor characters who may not have been used notably outside the appearance (list the routines if we have to?). I did notice somebody did this for The Ed Sullivan Show appearance with the first appearance of "Ma Nah Ma Nah", but that's one of the more notable Muppet routines.
Scarecroe wrote: I think all TV appearances are fair game.
I meant how to note the appearances. In many cases, it's easy to say "Jim Henson and Kermit the Frog appear on The Tonight Show" or "Kermit and Fozzie Bear appear on Good Morning America", but what about something like The Ed Sullivan Show appearances with segments such as "I Feel Pretty", Monster trash can bit, or The Glutton, where the characters were barely used elsewhere? List the bit, or just say "Muppet appearance on this show" or whatever?
Something I've been thinking about (and maybe it's a discussion for a different thread): How about pages for months of the year? I keep finding a lot of productions (including a lot of commercials and pilots that didn't make it to series) where we know what month they were in production but not the exact date.
Well, you know you'll have to include Pi Day. (March 14.) :)
This is definitely a great idea in general. I'm still musing on what our criteria and scope would be.
For celebrities, I think Scott has the right idea re Julie Andrews and Whoopi Goldberg. Each have more than five projects where they had significant Muppet interaction/involvement. That seems like a good threshold and would also include Lily Tomlin and Bob Hope. I think there's others where multi-capacity might equal five: i.e. Ruth Buzzi worked on Sesame Street six seasons on-camera, off-camera recurring voice, post-regular guest appearance, plus TMS and Elmo in Grouchland (and two less significant brushes via Pure Goldie and The Muppets Go Hollywood). Others I think we could also make cases for (Judy Collins, Andrea Martin) but probably best dealt with in nomination fashion, with five (maybe four?) or more as the criteria for inclusion without discussion as long as it's significant (appearances in Muppet Magazine, pre-planned and posed and usually multiple pics, count in a way that "picture taken at blank event" don't). That would make it clear that Bruce Forsyth or assorted one-time Sesame athletes and such wouldn't be included.
Actually day by day, it probably *would* make more sense to include birth dates for shorter-run Sesame Street regulars (but not just guest stars unless they meet criteria) in ways that don't always work on the timeline (those who became famous later like Charlotte Rae and Raúl Juliá, or were already celebrities like Bill Irwin, as well as just folks like Jaime Sánchez or Malvina Reynolds, as long as they were on a minimum of one season). Any borderline or possible exceptions, bring up for discussion (the more I think about it, a single "Every Day Nominations" thread or page might be practical, and new or drive by users can be directed to it).
Death dates, I feel like we should stick to our current rules (it makes sense for us to note when Jim Henson or Will Lee died, but not so much for Bob Hope or Pat Paulsen).
I'm not sure how to handle crew. Obviously count if they're already on the timeline, or would qualify (Jerry Juhl, Peter Harris, Frank Biondo). Multicapacity folk like Jim Thurman also fit the four or five projects suggestion above. Not sure about Sesame Street animators: Cliff Roberts, since he also did the comic strip, seems like he'd count (again, multicapacity helps). Folks like Paul Fierlinger and Bud Luckey probably but again I think likely best taken individually, which is why I'm liking the idea of nominations (users explain what they think should be added and why; if enough people say "sure," go ahead, if disagreement or just no response, leave it alone). We might or might not want to broaden to include Animated Voice Actors as long as they were regulars or again a multi-season rule (right now, voices on either Muppet Babies series, as long as they were regulars, seem worth noting, but not so sure on the animated Fraggle Rock and such).
I'm also thinking checking the Sesame Street calendars for holidays (with set dates) or notable people whose births are mentioned on multiple years (Abraham Lincoln, Martin Luther King Jr.) would work.
Moving away from people, there's debuts, air dates, and product releases. Theatrical releases by day, yes. TV shows, with The Muppet Show, air dates varied between the UK and US and also by region, so probably just note the earliest date for the premiere and otherwise leave alone. Anything with firm dates, I'm thinking specials and appearance air dates yes, and series/season premieres (definitely series finales, possibly season finales, depending; for most of the run, season finales on Sesame Street were often but not always significant episodes, often with big events or farewells, whereas the last Muppet Babies in any season was just that). For the rest, "event" episodes or others where the significance is pretty indisputable (Maria's wedding, "I'll Miss You, Mr. Hooper," etc.) and possibly debuts of major characters (there's no point in duplicating Sesame Street character debuts/Muppet character debuts or counting for every peripheral or short-lived character, but "The Minstrels" introducing Cantus or the first episode appearances of not-yet-regulars Linda and Gina seem worth noting). Otherwise, while including a Sesame per day could be fun and I can see the value in counting weekly airings of shows like Muppets Tonight or Dinosaurs, Muppet Babies confused things by compounding and mixing with reruns and I'm not sure whether "a Mopatop's Shop aired this date" is worth including (but we do have the space and they could maybe fill in empty days, so?)
Albums, yes. Direct to videos, problematic mostly because dates aren't always correct. Books, also not always a single or findable date, but I'm also thinking notable events related to books (the date Miss Piggy's Guide to Life first made the New York Time's Bestsellers list) could be better tracked by day than they could have worked on the timeline. Other merchandise, again mostly no.
I'll have more thoughts later but I think that's enough to chew on.
Good point re deaths that if we limit it to multiple connections, it could work. I'm mostly concerned over the kind of editors we get who add to the timeline every time a celebrity dies, sometimes even those just referenced (obviously as always, those wouldn't be tracked).
Yeah, sometimes we have specific dates or there was a big launch event so we can pin it down. It's just not worth going only by say Amazon.com dates added after the fact for videos or Fisher-Price toys. But if say a product catalog does have an "available on" date that can be confirmed (things like Hallmark ornaments and other more collector-oriented items often do), that would work as a citable source.
Fun stuff to include on Every Day:
- Character Birthdays when they were consistent in calendars (Zoe's had at least three dates and of course Kermit's Birthday is its own topic, but Gordon's, Rubber Duckie's, etc. have been the same for decades)
- Pretend You're a Bus Driver Day (February 7th)
- Jerry Juhl Day (September 26th)
Huh. In 2018, the UN declared June 3rd as World Bicycle Day. Not sure if we'll use it or not, but good to know.
I'd be fine with Holidays, Observances, or even just "Annually."
In general, I like the way it looks.
I like the multiconnection rule on the whole. But the first three Muppet movies had clear "Co-Starring"/"Also Starring" categories for human co-stars (Charles Durning and Austin Pendleton for TMM; Charles Grodin and Diana Rigg for GMC; Donald, Lonny Price, Louis Zorich for MTM). After that though, you get into Michael Caine and then stuff with more humans and so on, so depends if we want to carry it that far or just decide for Jim-era stuff. (I'm not really wild about including every one-time movie cameo person).
Eh, since I started tracking "major roles" by billing, I may as well finish for our own reference. After Caine and MCC, and counting the two feature-length TV outings, here's those who are given billing either as if they were stars or alongside the Muppets, and not designated as special guests or cameos or just "Cast":
- MTI: Tim Curry, Kevin Bishop, Billy Connolly, Jennifer Saunders (Connolly and Saunders are closer to large cameos, if we want to make a distinction, but it's partly the role size of Billy Bones anyway, in any version)
- MFS: Jeffrey Tambor, everyone else is billed as cameos
- It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie: David Arquette, Joan Cusack, Matthew Lillard, William H. Macy, Whoopi Goldberg; everyone else is cameos, and really Macy and Lillard are more cameo-sized roles too
- The Muppets' Wizard of Oz: Ashanti, Queen Latifah, David Alan Grier, Tambor
- Muppets (2014): Jason Segel, Amy Adams, Chris Cooper, Rashida Jones (everyone else is cameo/cast)
- Muppets Most Wanted: Ricky Gervais (including cut Muppets cameo, has enough distinct appearances to count anyway), Ty Burrell, Tina Fey
For Follow That Bird, "Starring" was used for the celebrities brought in, all cameos except Dave Thomas and Joe Flaherty, but they're all listed together anyway. (I'm obviously not counting the regular Sesame cast because they'll already be included on their date.)
The Adventures of Elmo in Grouchland has Mandy Patinkin and Vanessa Williams.
Labyrinth has David Bowie and Jennifer Connelly, but beyond that, I'm not sure we want to get into "One of the stars of Buddy was born this date" territory.
We might not want to include the birth dates for every one of these people, but it shows how many we're dealing with.
Tim Curry, Whoopi, Gervais, and Queen Latifah all had enough to count anyway (and even Mandy Patinkin has Grouchland, the street, and Shalom Sesame). Much as I love many of the cameo and supporting character actors (hi, Dorcas!), limiting to the above "major roles" distinction is a good way to prevent or limit "Birth date of Reporter #2" or more subjective argument stuff.
She's not on the current timeline though, thus why I mentioned her.
I just tacked on something close to that, to see how it looks with the dates below. Feel free to tweak!
I'm hoping to flesh out some pages, but something to discuss right now. Michael added to June 1, commenting "I think taping dates for scenes is okay." That kind of thing, unless it's say taping for a pilot, needs discussion first. And in this case, what was added is dubious: "*Ed Koch' cameo in The Muppets Take Manhattan is filmed." He copied that from Koch's, page but the cited source is "GettyImages." No link.
I looked, and this picture is all I could find, with this caption: "New York City Mayor Ed Koch poses with the Muppets on the set of their movie The Muppets Take Manhattan June 1, 1983 in New York City." So the date of the *photo* is unquestionable. It's not actually a shot of His Honor's scene, against what looks like part of the wedding set. It's possible or even probable they were shot the same day, depending on schedules, but there's nothing in the picture and caption to establish it (as opposed to Red Book diary entries).
So that's another thing for everyone. We almost certainly *do* have some incorrect dates, or insufficiently sourced ones, still floating around. So double check the cited source, if there is one, before adding any.
I'm not sure shooting dates of individual scenes in most cases need to be tracked (possibly for a major setpiece like the bicycles in The Great Muppet Caper) but it's definitely something that needs to be discussed rather than just added.
I'm on the fence about that too, mainly because of how overcrowded that could get. Items like The King of Eight, which feel notable enough to be worth tracking, weren't shot on a single day. And I'm not sold right now on "This is the date Elmo said a word in front of a wall" type entries. I feel like maybe dates for street plots, but there's just too many inserts unless we decide to do it based on, say, first entry in a major series or first appearance of a major character, similar to the debuts suggestion above.
Oh and Michael, the Koch error was on the source page, so that's not your fault, but why we need to verify and check the source when copying dates from other pages (even if it's just to make sure nobody made a typo or transposed a number, something I know I've done with other things.)
I still kind of like "Annually."
We don't. I feel (like with holidays that don't fall on the same date every year) that's something we can leave to the actual calendars. Since our goal is to note events or items relevant to the Muppets, rather than being a practical day planner.
Just to show how it's being handled so far, look at November 10.
"Sesame Street premieres with Episode 0001," because the structure avoids the visual issue Scott mentioned, and in this case the date is significant as the debut of the series *and* the episode.
But below, "Muppet Babies Episode 109: Close Encounters of the Frog Kind" and so on for "Show Title/Episode Title" structures which aren't series premieres.
Reminder: Just because a date is on a page, or showed up when Scott was pulling pages for the sandbox, doesn't mean it belongs on the date pages. The date an outside show mentioned the Muppets or played a Muppet song, or comic strip spoofed them, doesn't belong, nor does the date a puppeteer joined some other company. Just think about whether it's really part of Muppet history.
Which web series are you wanting to note? I'm not sure whether we need to note the date every item in Muppet viral videos or From the Balcony etc. went up (and whether we create episode pages for Muppets Now, we'll determine when it goes live).
We're going to have to, it seems, even though we're still formulating possible future inclusions. Too many users aren't reading this thread or seeing the reminders (I'm unlinking dates and taking out "the day the Jim Henson Company announced a pilot wasn't picked up.") I'm spending my time cleaning up rather than actually adding to the dates.
I finally managed to do January 10. I wanted to be thorough but also logical (no "So and so had a conference to announce" stuff). It's the first Land of Gorch inclusion, I think, so minus episode pages or even titles, I'm just putting it as Saturday Night Live "Land of Gorch" except for noting the first sketch, last as regulars, and last period (the second season).
It depends. "The Muppets appear on The Ed Sullivan Show" is fairly notable, even if just listed *as* the Muppets because no really major characters were involved, and even in later years, tracking Muppet guest appearances, whether it's the stars or just the rats and Whatnots, is pretty worthwhile. While "Mahna Mahna" is notable in itself, I wouldn't bother to list the bit or "The Glutton" which only mean anything to the hardcore users anyway (and we are linking to the show for those entries, so anyone can see the table and find details).
"The Muppets appear in the background of a Disneyland print ad" or whatever, definitely no, but I'd say yes to anything on-camera (if it's something like Our Place, where we know Rowlf and sometimes other Muppets appeared every week but really only have details on one or two episodes, first and last is probably wisest). Also, when it gets to stuff like "Fozzie, a cow, two penguins, and a Whatnot appear," it's easier to just say "Fozzie and other Muppets" and leave the specific breakdown to the show page.
Also, I like the "begins production" notes for episodes shot over multiple days. I don't think we need it necessarily for every episode of every show, but it's good for first and last episodes and things like Muppet Show where air dates were all over anyway, as well as when stuff like the remaining Dinosaurs episodes come up (produced before the finale, not aired until Disney Channel/syndication reruns, so the production date is the best date).
I have a quick question:
What if the wiki doesn't have a date for products that came out that year?
Would we still use the year template if we have unknown dates for products, however we know the year of said products?
Okay I think I understand it
Scarecroe wrote:
Omitting the episode number can sometimes be confusing at a glance, but I like the idea of saying a series or even a season premiere. What about, Sesame Street premieres with Episode 0001 ?
Great idea. I’ll test it out on the January 1 page, since that was the date Season 32 premiered.
Also, if anyone knows how to use one of those navigation things to go through the days, that’d be nice.
OK, fair enough.
Works for me, but what about the February 29 page?
Do we have a page for Leap Day?
OK then. Now we just need to find stuff related to the Muppets that miraculously happened on February 29.
I don’t see a need to.
You heard what he said. No means no.
Just don’t bother.
Is there a piticular order or whatever we have to edit the wiki? Like say Scott edited the 23rd of March, do I have to work on that one with him, or can I work on another page, and can they page be any page or are we assinged to a page or whatever? Does this question make sense? Pretty much can we edit a date page at any time or are they assinged to us?
So I can edit any date page at anytime? Theres no paticular order?
oh cool cause I was gonna edit the page of my birthday as well (October 13) but was not sure if I could or not. Thanks!
Just tested the waters by adding a couple of Bear in the Big Blue House items to October 20, the show's premiere date. May do more later.
Are we going to add images to the pages like the year pages?
Not even the first instance of a show title within the article?
Well, I heard what he said, but that doesn't really seem to make sense? How would that be at all helpful to readers? It's also not consistent with what we've been doing so far.
Can I ask the reason for the rule at all? It doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever.
P.S.: If we're talking about exceptions, I would also suggest making an exception for the premiere episode of a show, along with specifically noting that it's a show's premiere.
Thanks, that makes sense as far as the linking!
I'm wondering if "Recurring" should be "(Official) Holidays" or "Observances." What else can go there if we keep it as "Recurring"?