Archive of Andrew's talk page.

Is it?

Hey, I saw your note about making "is" capitalized in titles. What do we do when an item's title isn't done that way, like G is for Growing? Should we move it, or only do it when an item actually says it? I have a feeling that a lot of song and album titles are going to be inconsistent, so I wanted to ask first. Thanks! -- Ken (talk) 04:51, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, we've left that as is because that's what the actual cover text says, and we try to reflect on-screen evidence, even when they made mistakes (actually, looking at it, I think we should probably reflect the quotation marks too; I'll mention it on the talk page). I brought this up earlier today regarding Hi Friend. But otherwise, "Is" should be capitalized. Apparently early on, Danny was following the assumption that words of two letters should be lower-case, which isn't true. So on songs and albums, check to see if there's visual evidence to the contrary. Otherwise, it should be corrected. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 04:57, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Well, I have a feeling we're going to run into things like "C is for Cookie" being done a bunch of different ways, due to all the different companies that have handled the same songs over the years. The Razor & Tie Sesame Street Best even has all words (even "a" and "the") capitalized on the back cover! I kind of think we should make a rule, and stick to it, even if covers are wrong, because we're going to find exceptions no matter what we decide. -- Ken (talk) 05:16, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
True, but in a case like that, it makes sense to go with the most frequent one, which seems to use the lower-case "is." Feel free to bring it up on current events, though, and right, in some cases, all words are capitalized and in some none are; the general issue is to see which was intended. This is easier with book covers or episode title cards, where pretty much any variation is derived solely from external sources or faulty memory or what have you, than with song titles. That's an area that probably needs to be dealt with on a case by case basis, rather than a hard and fast rule. I moved "Breakfast Is the Best Meal of the Day," since there was no written evidence to support the error. "C is for Cookie" is an issue which seems closer to "Bein' Green," as far as determining primary usage. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:25, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
It's hard to figure out what was intended when things have been reissued so many times on so many different labels. I'm almost inclined to go with whatever the earliest album has, except that the main SS label run has them in all caps. I could see what the sheet music has, but I'm finding contradictions in different editions of that as well. I guess I'll have to go back to CS 1069 and work my way forward and see what variations there have been, and try to sort it out. By the way, I'm not following you on "Bein' Green". Were you talking about the title change from "Green", or using the apostrophe? -- Ken (talk) 05:42, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Apostrophe, mainly, and variants appearing, but a primary version was found and that's what we're using. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:45, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. I hope this doesn't sound like I'm being difficult. It's just frustrating when different records of the same song aren't consistent. I don't mind bringing it up on Current Events, but I'd like to look through some records first, and see how many we're talking about. By the way, "Keep On Trying" is all capitalized on the back cover, but all songs have all words in caps, like the Best album I mentioned above.
I'm tired. You want to come over and split a bag of cheese with me? -- Ken (talk) 06:07, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Cheeeeeeese. The price of cheese has gone up, alas, so no Swiss or cheddar this New Year's. Still plenty of Mom's cheeseball though (a blend of cream cheese, shredded cheddar, and blue). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 06:13, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I've read of your love for cheese in various other writings. I think we just found something else to add to the list. Have you ever eaten a whole cream cheese bar at once? I did, and I paid for it later, but it felt good while I was doing it.
Getting back to other stuff, and sorry if I'm beating a dead doornail (or something like that), I'm still not following you on Kermit's song. The first Columbia singles and albums called it "Green". By the time of The Muppet Show, it was called "Bein' Green". What other variants were/are there? -- Ken (talk) 06:29, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Never mind, I just ran through What Links Here, so I finally understand what you were getting at.
We'll have to go on a cheese shopping trip. I'm already thinking of some new ones I'd like to try. -- Ken (talk) 07:11, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Muppet Babies Titles

Hi, Andrew. I'm seeing that on the articles on some of the MB episodes, there's an image of the opening title. Should we have the article title be the way the opening says it as? I saw this on Six to Eight Weeks; the image said "Six-to-Eight Weeks", and the article currently has the title without the hyphens. If you can agree with this, then should I, or someone else, move the page to the opening title's text? Matt H. (talk) 00:09, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Matt! We do try to go by the on-screen evidence, so anytime you see a title card which doesn't match the episode title, feel free to move it (though it's wise to check "What links here," to see if any double redirects need to be fixed). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 02:50, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Why thank you! -- Matt H. (talk) 03:22, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Chubby Checker

Can you check Chubby Checker? You've got him as being on the far right, and it looks like there's a white person there. Also, I had a side question for you about the Carpenters, so I put it on their page to keep it all together. Thanks! -- Ken (talk) 23:39, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

I meant left. I have no sense of direction. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 02:47, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Oh, good. I was going to make it say "lower right", but then I thought, "I don't know what he looks like now, so what if that's not him?" Anyway, thanks! -- Ken (talk) 02:55, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Tom Cooke picture

Nice find! Another Sesame legend revealed. —Scott (talk) 04:05, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! Besides, I always like pictures of people posed with odd-looking Big Bird dolls. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:07, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Snuffy's Parents Get a Divorce

Thanks for the refs, Aleal! -- Zanimum 15:16, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Good evening!

Hey, nice to see you! Could you please put the 2 new CD's on the calendar on the front page? I've been updating every related page I can think of! I'm so happy! Thanks! -- Ken (talk) 06:18, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

And I'm happy for you! I just added them as separate (note spelling!) items, in line with the DVDs, though I wasn't sure if they should be together. It's a fairly small slate anyway, though, and worth noting. By the way, the way to add anything to the calendar list is to edit Template:Upcoming. That's not protected, and unlike the "Today on Muppet Wiki," there's no real protocol surrounding it. Anyone's welcome to add anything that's notable (usually excluding things like Sesame Street board books, but new CDs, even re-issues, seem worth noting to me). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 06:23, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Oh, okay. It was just that I tried to edit a template a long time ago (I forget which one it was), and it wasn't working, so I had to get somebody to fix it for me. Anyway, I've been checking Amazon for weeks, and that's how I've been seeing used Sony Wonder prices going through the roof! I really wish people wouldn't gouge people! They're not even that rare! Just look at eBay! You can find everything there for normal prices, even ones still unopened! So today I just typed "Koch Sesame", and I noticed that the price said "Buy New", and then I saw March 4, and I almost screamed! I'm hoping this is just the first 2 titles to be added! I remember that the Sony Wonders were coming out in batches of 5 or 10 at a time, so I hope they add more by March! I'm not going to buy the Elmo one, but I want to get the other one, just so I can figure out their numbering system! -- Ken (talk) 06:36, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Bob McGrath

Hey Aleal, I'm just going to try to rework the Bob Mcgrath Biography now since I have time. Wish me luck! Tyrekecorrea 23:42, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

oops

Can one of you nifty admins delete the mirrormask screw up I made. It's been awhile since I've created a catagory. THANK YOU!! -- Nate (talk) 23:10, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I got it... Don't worry about it, Andrew. -- Danny (talk) 23:43, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Redirect

Here's another technical question for future reference. I want to make the "Sesame Street Records" in the album box go to the page about the label itself, with all of the titles listed in numerical order. But right now, "Sesame Street Records" goes back to the category page of all of the albums on all labels in alphabetical order. Without having to type "Sesame Street Records (label)|Sesame Street Records" every time, is there a way to redirect it right to it? Bert's Blockbusters is already linked, if you want to see what I'm talking about. Thanks! -- Ken (talk) 20:18, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Right now "Sesame Street Records" is a re-direct to the category. It could be changed to point to the article about the label, but I'd personally rather not. Somebody searching for "Sesame Street Records" probably doesn't want the article on the label; they want to see all the records. So that redirect is very useful the way it is. Just my 2cents; let's hear what Andrew thinks also. -- Wendy (talk) 22:07, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
I tend to agree. I don't know how often category re-directs are used, but for the casual visitor, and even the not so casual, "Sesame Street Records" means the same as "Sesame Street Books" or "Muppet Show Coffee Mugs," a collection of things and not a label. You can bring this up on current events, but I'm not sure changing the redirect is useful (if anything, it sounds like a better argument could be made for a disambig page, and that wouldn't solve your specific concern). Rather, ask Scott. In a case like this, if tons of pages are linking to the wrong thing, it would be quicker to have him use a bot to make an automatic fix. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 22:40, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I know that somebody typing "Sesame Street Records" is browsing for stuff in general like toys or books (heck, that's how I got here), so the phrase can mean 2 different things. I don't mind doing them all by hand. There really aren't that many, and I'm constantly tweaking things in there anyway. I was just curious if there was another way of doing it. -- Ken (talk) 02:21, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Muppet articles

Since you're up and on, I'll ask you something I just thought of. How much material is in your Muppet Magazine book? I was thinking you could send me a list of what's in there, and then I could figure out what issues everything came out of. I also want to start just putting everything from my issues on the wiki. Let me know. -- Ken (talk) 07:11, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Ken! It's all listed on Muppets! Muppets! Muppets!. The things I'd probably have to scan for you to determine are the three "Ask Miss Piggy" columns, possibly the Bunsen Honeydew piece (a long narrative report which ends with Beaker turning into a turkey), and the "Mondo Muppet" section. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 07:23, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Cool! That'll be a big help. You probably won't have to scan those if you just maybe type the first paragraph or something, unless they spliced together different Miss Piggy and Mondo columns. But I'm guessing they just took complete pages and compiled them. I hope your paper is going well, even though I said I wouldn't ask about it! -- Ken (talk) 07:33, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
My goal is to finish tomorrow. We'll see if it works out (Mom will be able to stay home and serve as a sounding board, so I'm fairly confident). Then I can get cracking on fun to-do list stuff: Muppet Magazine, international voice actors and live actors, Spanish Sesame, a few books which aren't on here or need updating, etc. --- Andrew Leal (talk) 07:47, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I found it!

Hey, the Isaac Asimov article is in Summer 1983, which is Volume 1, Number 3, with the "Battle of the Space Heroes" cover. We'll have to talk about other stuff soon! I'd love to completely document Muppet Magazine, but I'm not quite sure what format you guys had in mind.

Oh yeah, since Sesame Street News Flash won the Quality award, aren't you guys going to mention it as a Today On item? -- Ken (talk) 03:55, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Yay! Thanks! If you look around, you see there's not much of a format, simply because most of the pages are stubby. The more detailed pages basically list the full contents: interviews (subject, Muppet interviewer, "as told to"), columns (and who wrote them), comics (illustrator and writer), etc. I'd also like to gradually assemble a list of characters who appear in the comics, photo essays, etc., when it's not patently obvious. As a rule, more specific details about what was discussed with the celebrity guests, in general, can be better used to beef up those pages, with exceptions of some of the more "story" oriented ones (Sam and the cast of Family Ties lost on the freeway, Gonzo runs away to live with The Cosby Show kids at Christmas, Steve Martin babysits the Muppet Babies, etc.; not stuff that can as easily be expressed on a celebrity's page). Right now, though most just say that so and so was in such and such issue, so I'd like to use Asimov as a model for that, especially for those whose only Muppet connection was in the magazine. Also, Guillermo already updated the News Flash in the quality list, but it would be worth noting on the main page. I may get to it myself, but if not, stick it on the nominations page, which Wendy checks regularly (she's been doing a great job keeping it up to date, but unlike Scott and Danny, she tends to go strictly by what's on the list). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:30, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm glad you're enjoying the book! I never knew about it until I came here! I still remember going to the mall and buying each issue brand new, and I didn't want to subscribe to it, because I didn't want to have an address label stuck on it. Do you have any old issues? I keep forgetting you were 2, and I was 13 when the first issue came out in January 1983. (That means Muppet Magazine is 25 this year, like Fraggle Rock! Man, I feel so old!) Now that I'm looking back, half the fun is looking at the ads, especially for videocassettes, which were just starting to take off as something you could buy! -- Ken (talk) 05:59, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
As far as formatting goes, I'd hoped that what I did for Muppet Magazine issue 19 would be agreeable for everyone. It's the most heavily covered issue on the wiki if I'm not mistaken. And I took some time to make sure the format was inclusive and easy to transfer for other issues. —Scott (talk) 06:13, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, that's what I was thinking of. I just couldn't remember which issue it was (and several just mention the celebrity and Muppets on the cover and little to nothing else). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 06:15, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Redirects

Hey, it's good to see you around again! I hope all is well! Anyway, I'm not sure how to explain it, because I forgot what I did, but can you look at some redirects having to do with Golden Music? I've been expanding some of the Golden tapes, but I noticed that they redirected to Western Publishing. Well, I made that into a real page covering the Golden Music label, so it matches all of our other record labels, but I wasn't sure if I got them all. Also, I think I may have accidentally made a double redirect on Bert and Ernie: Side by Side when I caught some variant spellings of it. Thanks for your help! I'll call you on Wednesday! -- Ken (talk) 02:39, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Done, at least re Side by Side. 'Twas a quick fix, which is always a nice change of pace. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 02:44, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Getting translated!

Hi Andrew guess what.. Ive found someone to translate the tracklist of my japanese Sesame street cd's. I hope to ad full information in or arround next week!Pino 22:07, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Lucy!

Hey, I'm guessing you're still finishing up your paper, so don't answer this until you're done. I'm just putting it here so I don't forget. A long time ago, you were talking with Danny about a Lucille Ball connection to Sesame Street. Do you remember what that was? Maybe I can dig through stuff. Hope you're doing well! -- Ken (talk) 02:27, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I fell asleep for about 3-4 hours without meaning to, and I'm vacillating between whether to try to get more work done (I'd hoped to finish tonight) or just go back to bed. As far as Lucy goes, it depends on whether you picked up the same documents on your visit to the archive or whether Danny e-mailed the scans in question to you. She was a guest star on Sesame Street in season two, confirmed via newspaper reports, a sheet noting which celebs had been booked and when/where they were taped, and a script of her bits. To add any details, since none of the inserts seem to be in any kind of circulation, I need to find the scans and write it out (there's other references to I Love Lucy, in Muppet Babies, Dog City, and one of those Movie Mania screen test bits. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Another Question

Sorry to bother you if you are still busy with your writing, but for "Volume 1" of a Spanish-language book series, would it be more usual to use "Tomo 1", or "Volumen 1" or something else altogether ("Numero 1"?)?? -- Wendy (talk) 19:14, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Still busy, yeah, sorry for the late response. Frankly, I wouldn't have used "Volumen," simply because it doesn't appear on the text. The reason we have pages like The Sesame Street Treasury Volume 1 is because those book actually use the word "volume" on the cover. As I've said before, I can't make out the text in the tiny boxes very well on these scans, but nothing like that seems to exist. In this instance, I would have recommended a numbering system, like we do with magazines and comic books, i.e. "Preguntale etc. #1" and so on. But at this point, I'm not sure it's worth another batch of renaming to fix it, but a small note of clarification on the parent page could be useful (if there's a way to word it without sounding too obsessive or dull). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:45, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
I think he's only created 4 or 5 of them, so I can still rename. I tried to get him to hold off until I heard back from you but it didn't quite work. Incidentally I used the accents in the title because while they aren't on the cover, Paul says they are on the title page. In case you wondered. And if you're looking for a terribly boring job, checking through for typos and properly accenting all the Spanish text he puts in wouldn't hurt; I've found some errors, but it's hit or miss if I notice it I suspect. -- Wendy (talk) 17:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Song of "C"

Hey Andrew -- there are three enciclopedia abrete sesamo volumes for C. "[[:Image:BarrioCa.JPG|C]]", "[[:Image:BarrioC.JPG|c]]", and "''[[:Image:BarrioCc.JPG|C]]''". Any ideas on how to title that third one? Or what the script C means? Maybe soft C vs. hard C for the other? -- Wendy (talk) 21:28, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

I just left a message on your talk page. There was a duplicate, which I think I got rid of. The other for some reason seems to use a lower case c. I can't honestly read the text very well, so I have no idea what the third one says. I'm afraid I'll have to leave it in your hands. Clean up the obvious errors, and raise questions on the category page on the rest; hopefully Paul can clear it up, but so far this whole thing has just been a mess and I can't deal with any more of it right now (I've been trying for four days to finish a book article on "Muppets and Money.") And let this be a lesson to everyone never to create a misspelled, incorrect category page as a redlink, unless you want someone to create that category. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:32, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
Its just a capital C writen cross I try to make contact with a person who has the books.. Maybe he can explane what it is??Pino 21:37, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
Hey Andrew. I think we cross-posted. Sorry -- I didn't realize you had other stuff going on (so do I actually but it's churning in the background at the moment). I'll come up with something for the third "C". Not that I'm sure we actually have C vs c right given those covers. And I'll definitley clean up the rest. I hear you on the redlined category thing!
Paul I know it's an italic C: but there's no obvious way to make a page title that reflects that. -- Wendy (talk) 21:39, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
We just cant call it italic C or "C"? Else I would just call it Cc like I did it at first? That was a mistake but that was the name of the picture.. Ass far as the publisher.. I find out its from Orbis Montena. Can I add those at the moment.. Or are you still renameing my mess.. sorry guys.Pino 21:55, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
Scott suggested we just merge the multiple-letter pages into one per letter. I think that's a great plan until/unless the pages get too awkward. So that's what I've done. Paul, I hope that's ok; I couldn't find a reliable way to make an italic C in the title and "C"/Cc bugged me. -- Wendy (talk) 05:53, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Old School details

Hey, I know you're busy, but when you have a minute, when I'm putting Old School under Video Releases on a song page, should I put the episode it was in, or just put Old School? I'm asking because some songs are actually on both, and then there's all the songs that are on Old School, but only as classic cuts. Can I put "Classic Cuts" for them? Oh, and can you read a little farther down if you haven't already? Thanks! -- Ken (talk) 05:56, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

As far as reading further down, if you mean Chubby, I just haven't got to it yet (I didn't mean to do so much work on Fran Brill, but I was inspired). In general, with the video releases, we put it in parentheses or in a comma after listing the item. So it would be "Old School Volume 2 (Season 6 classic cuts)" or whatever. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 06:18, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Okay, thanks! The Fran Brill page is great! I just wish I could find out more about Marylou. She only shows up on 2 albums, sounds exactly like Prairie Dawn, and never seems to have been a seen character. So I have no idea why they even bothered naming her Marylou, unless they were going to build a character, and then decided not to.
Hey, did you see Bob at the Rose Parade? I posted it on Current Events. I'm telling you, I think we're coming into a new era of (re)visibility, after being ignored and thrown over for all those kids' shows on cable! I'm glad to see Muppets showing up on all kinds of shows and events lately! -- Ken (talk) 06:44, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Randy and Chubby (and Bob)

Hey, thanks for the Randy Newman page! I was going to do something with him when I realized that he wrote "Simon Smith", but I forgot.

Also, can you look at the Chubby Checker page I made? I had a few questions. First, how do you write it when a person has a birth name different from his stage name? Does it go in the parentheses with the birth year? Then, does he get to be in Sesame Street guest stars or just celebrities? The only link I saw was Monster in the Mirror, and it said that he was in a celebrity version made up of people who had been on the show the year before, but I couldn't find which show, so do you want to just put celebrities until we find out when he was actually on the show? Thanks! -- Ken (talk) 06:07, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I don't mean to bug you with more questions when you haven't answered this one yet, but I felt funny talking to you on Wendy's talk page, and I didn't know if you'd go back and keep reading. I just wanted to say thanks for letting me know about the Bob 45! You know I've never seen the Japan page before? And Bob's whole pop career has always frustrated me, because I don't know if it was accidental or intentional, but he seems to have recorded a whole bunch of stuff here that was never sold here, but he was huge in Japan. And that 45 has to be from 1965, seeing that it has Edelweiss and Yesterday on it! I've always wanted to build a complete listing of his recordings, and having them be so hard to document has always been a pain. I saw the 11 PM album on eBay, and they had pictures of the labels, and it's fascinating to see what he did: a mix of standards and current pop hits, just like other Columbia artists like Andy Williams, Johnny Mathis and Robert Goulet were doing. Oh well, I guess he would have stayed obscure like other easy listening pop artists who got lost in the British Invasion, like John Davidson, another Columbia singer who made some records that didn't go anywhere, and then he turned to acting and hosting talk shows. It's amazing how many other failed singers went into doing talk shows or game shows: Merv Griffin, Wink Martindale, Regis Philbin.... -- Ken (talk) 07:54, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Derek Scott

A user posted that there's a problem with the picture of Derek Scott -- check out the talk page. -- Danny (talk) 17:27, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Barrio/ abrete Sesamo question

Hi Andrew.. a problem about how to categorize some books. I know Barrio Sesamo is the official name of the series, but they had made an encyclopedia in 1985 called Abrete Sesamo.. with Espinete and all the characters... Is there a way to merge Abrete Sesamo and Barrio Sesamo merchendise? If not Shall i just put the books under Barrio Sesamo Merchendise?-- Paul (talk) 21:20, 27 December 2007 (CET)

Hi, Paul! I don't think the stuff which was released to tie in with Ábrete Sésamo should be labeled as Barrio Sesame items; since there's only two anyway, I just added them to the article page. The book you mention, however, is clearly just using it as a title, not as a tie-in, so it belongs with the others. As it stands, Category:Barrio Sésamo Merchandise contains exactly four items. I know you've said you plan to add more, but how much more and when? If the total amount of known items would be limited to six or seven, it would make more sense to just list it all on the Barrio Sésamo page. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:27, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
Well I have about 20 books, an other pvc with cars line, windup toy, several boardgames... Ehm I guess it would be larger then the Norway section... Ive also gethered an new member who I am working close to on my site. He also will geot on this big job. I just start with adding the items and them later on I'll adding more information.. I hope this make things clear to you?-- Paul (talk) 21:46, 27 December 2007 (CET)
Sort of. I don't want to pressure you, but it would help to add some more items now. As I said before, it's a general Wiki policy to try not to create categories until there's enough items to warrant the category on the Wiki (unless there's no other place to put them). I think it will work this time, but next time, before you create a new merchandise category, raise the question on the show article's talk page, listing items that are on the Wiki and items you're aware of but haven't added. That way it's easy to see if a category is needed, and if it isn't, the list can be appended to the article easily. Oh, and by the way, great work cleaning up Category:International Sesame Street Books, removing the double categorized items. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:52, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Return of the Dash

Happy Boxing Day, and I say that only because I know you know what that is! Anyway, I noticed over on MusikJunky's talk page that Danny talked about proper dash usage. After you read it, I'd like to know what you think. It sounds like the records have been wrong all this time, but I'd like to get a second opinion. Hope you enjoyed the sales! -- Ken (talk) 02:38, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Long-term projects

Hey, since you're the English Master around here, I wanted to ask you a clerical question. What should we be doing with dashes? I've noticed people like Scott can put one long dash by their name, while I only started doing 2 short ones because I was copying Danny. But the wiki isn't like Word, where if you do 2 short ones and a space it turns into a long one. So how do you make the long one? The reason I'm asking is because someday I want to replace the inconsistent dashes that I'm running into on the record pages between song titles and peformers. People are putting 1 long, or 2 short, or 1 short with no space, or 1 short with 1 space on each side, etc. I've tried to make things the same, but I like the long dash, but I don't know how to make it. Just as an aside, aren't there 3 kinds of dashes? Do you know when to use them, and how to make them on here?

The other and simpler question I had is how do you feel about how the way the Sesame Street Videography looks? I forget if Brad or Michael was working with it. I wasn't crazy about it originally, but now I'm getting to like it. I think it will make pages more concise to have 4 pictures on a line, instead of 1, and it would also cut down on all of the white space on the Discography pages. I know it would be a(nother) long-term project to convert all the Discographies to a gallery format, so I wanted to talk to you (and maybe other people) to see how they feel. So what do you think?

Oh yeah, in regards to getting another copy of that Elmo CD, I've noticed that B&N pulled all of their SS CD's a couple of weeks ago, and they always used to have a few in the kids' section. I have a feeling that they were called back in preparation for the distributor change. I'm very interested if Koch will reissue Sony CD's, go back to CS 1069 (my personal choice), or start over with new titles entirely. Genius Old School 2 matches the Sony Old School 1 almost exactly, and I'm waiting to see if Genius will eventually reprint the Old School 1. So far they've only seemed to make new titles, and I haven't seen if they're going to reprint any old ones. I've lost track of how many reissues the original 1986 Random House tapes have gone through! -- Ken (talk) 22:56, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Quick partial answer, I can't really address the dash issue, which as you note, is not just a style issue but a basic keyboard/formatting issue (the same problem that also sometimes surfaces with accent marks or even quotation marks when copied from text). As far as the discographies go, it depends. I like Sesame Street Videography, and think it works wonderfully. The same format has now been used on most of the composer pages too. It basically depends. If the discography/videography is just a means of collecting titles but all of the actual information is already on the individual pages, it works. If it functions as a consolidation of pages, it doesn't; Wubbulous World Videography replaced the many stub pages, and is effective as a chart, but shouldn't be converted to a gallery. As a record example, singles are only included on the discographies and not individual pages. If the information relating to those can be summed up in one line or so within the gallery format (and Template:GNH is a great help with that, then I'd say it would work. If more elaborate information is needed, it should remain as a chart. That's my take on it and I think, from scattered conversations, Scott and just about everyone else agrees. As with other elements on the Wiki, it's a question of what works, and generally needs to be considered on a case by case basis. I'd definitely encourage you to bring it up at Category talk:Discographies, though. Since it would be a long-term project anyway, it would be a good way to make a visible "to do" list which anyone could work on, of those specific pages which could be converted without any loss of information. At a glance Fraggle Rock discography seems like the perfect example of a page which would function well as a gallery, since all of the items have individual pages, and the notes are fairly limited anyway (label and such which GNH can take care of).-- Andrew Leal (talk) 23:19, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, I figured the dash thing might involve how different keyboards show it. I'll have to ask Scott when he has some more time.
As far as how we show charts and galleries, to me, making the LP chart into a gallery is the same thing. All we need to show is the picture, title, year, format, and label (and maybe even that could be cut), and if the pictures or text have clickable links that go to each page, then to me that's doing the same thing, and will save space, and possibly also load faster. I won't worry about it for a while, though; I just wanted to see what you thought, since I think I brought it up a long time ago, and I think you might have missed it. Thanks! -- Ken (talk) 00:58, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Somebody asked Danny about the long dash once. I believe the answer is it's a special character, like an upside-down question mark, that you have to copy out of somewhere else, such as a font preview tool for example. And so if you want to use it, the easiest thing is to copy it off of Scott's signature and paste it into your own (or wherever). It would probably be easier (if less pretty) to go with a keyboard dash for the album pages.
And I agree with Andrew; I would only want to switch to a galler if most of the info is a) already on the individual pages, and b) not important to the article to have repeated... -- Wendy (talk) 01:12, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Favor

Hey, can you blow up Elmo's Favorite Sing-Alongs? I mean, make the picture larger? (Sorry, Elmo.) -- Ken (talk) 05:43, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

I did what I could, but there aren't any decent images online. What we need is for someone who owns the CD to scan it, so we can have a full-sized image. Add it to Images Wanted. Also, merry Christmas eve eve eve to you too! -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:59, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
Hmm. It seems like Wendy was able to take a small picture and make it the right size, but I forgot which one that was. Well, anyway, I have now stopped at an even 3,500, and all Sony Wonder CD's have all known catalog(ue) numbers posted, so I'm going to bed. If you're still up, I hope you can get some sleep soon as well! -- Ken (talk) 08:19, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
I could make it larger but it would just be blurrier. I'd rather wait until we can get a good image at that size. The CD is still in print, I think, so it should be doable. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 08:25, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Feetlebaum!

Heading into the home stretch. More later. -- Ken (talk) 20:01, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Weird things

Hi! Is the main page picture broken? It's just a big string of coding, which I guess is the address for the picture itself.

Also, a while ago, when I tried to edit a page, it said "Database locked", and I couldn't do anything. Is that something new? I've never seen that before. I guess things are working normally now.

Oh yeah, totally off topic, have you ever noticed if the Plaza Sesamo episodes on Spanish stations are cut, since they have commercials, and the PBS versions don't? (I wish they'd number their shows!) Thanks for your help! -- Ken (talk) 07:05, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I left a message with Scott. I can't see how to fix it, and frankly I think it's a Wikia issue. The "database locked" was probably tied to that, Wikia was maybe doing a quick down or something to fix or add something. I haven't seen the same Plaza shows on PBS and Mexican TV, but in fact I don't think they're cut (remember, PBS does have the sponsor tags and all), they just spread it out a bit (plus here, they run it as a one hour block, two back to back episodes; the Mexican-aired shows also have longer credits). I'd have to wait until I can tape the same episode on both channels to be sure. If anything, what would seem more likely is that the PBS versions might conceivably be padded. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 18:31, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
I don't know if something else happened, but the Fred trophy is broken, too. I just told Scott. -- Ken (talk) 19:38, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Main Page

Hi! *Please* stop editing the main page. Adding "the following" isn't helpful in this instance, and just lengthens the line. There's a reason we keep reverting that change. It's not being presented as a complete sentence in an article, just a way to spotlight the Quality Articles. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 09:40, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

A colon NEVER comes after a verb. You should recast the sentence. I suggest looking at The Chicago Manual of Style. Peace. —MuzikJunky 09:46, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
The main page doesn't have to follow the Chicago Manual of Style or MLA or anything. If it were an article, I'd agree with you. It isn't. It follows reasonable grammar rules but sometimes grammar and punctuation take a backseat to helping visitors find things. So please desist or we'll have to protect the page. Also, please stop moving conversations to other people's talk pages. It's easier for all of us if the conversation stays on a single page. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 09:51, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Jasper and Julius

Hey Andrew -- have you seen Talk:Jasper and Julius with the question about the ordering of the names?? Michael says he got the name sequence from Cliff Roberts, which you started originally. Did you have a source, or should we go with what Sesame Workshop is calling it (Julius and Jasper)? 02:14, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

I started it, but that was the pairing used on the Wiki prior as redlinks. I've seen both used online (Jasper and Julius seems to predominate), and the press material I have regarding the comic strip isn't consistent. In the comic strip itself, Jasper is usually the first to speak, with Julius as a foil or straightman, and that is reasonably consistent. Personally, I don't think the Sesame video i.d. is worth moving the page over. It's not like Buddy and Jim, but seems more like Ernie and Bert, where there's no firm order. It's worth a note on the page, but I don't think it would really be a useful move (anymore than, as discussed with The Typewriter, moving that to add "nooney nooney" etc. based on the merchandise page). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 02:24, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Ah, ok. The second part of the question was whether you simply chose an order (in which case the video id would be a better choice) or if there were other official uses out there with Jasper first, which there are. So then I agree about not moving it. -- Wendy (talk) 02:27, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, it just hasn't been consistent (in the comics, sometimes Jasper hollers "Julius!' first, but Jasper is consistently the dominant figure and source of the situation). The Sesame video player is a great resource, but I don't think we should rely on it for everything as far as naming, especially regarding their labels which, as with YouTube, are on the whole designed more to aide people in finding sketches. They use "Bert & Ernie" most often as a label, but I don't think that proves anything there either, and they have "Baker Number 3" as a label presumably because that's what people would search for (and not "Henson #3" as used on the DVDs, or "Song of Three" as used on the music, and so on). On the whole, I'd say the only occasion when a page is worth renaming based on the video player *label* (as opposed to actual sketch content) is if our own title is awkward and made-up (see Detective Series), a character name was misheard or misspelled, or the label is consistent with what's been used on DVDs and albums and so on. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 02:40, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


3,300 wonderful edits!

I can't believe I'm almost there! I just hit 3,300! Only 175 more edits to go, and I'll hit #10 on the Top Contributors List! And there's still so much more to do in just the records! Hope you're doing well! To 3,475-and beyond! -- Ken (talk) 07:55, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Talk: The Ladykillers

I posted a question over there about a source. Any chance you'd remember? -- Mark (talk) 12:35, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Oops!

You're not going to believe this, but I think we just bumped into each other on the same albums. So I'll stay out of your way. I wanted to let you know that there are 2 pairs of albums that have the same main title, and they're kind of far apart, so I didn't know if you wanted to keep the long title to tell them apart. -- Ken (talk) 05:10, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

More different things

Hi! Your page is getting to be huge, so I'll be brief. First, thank you for the Jean Shepherd page! I put his dates in from Wikipedia, because I didn't have anything else to go by, so you may want to check that.

The next 2 may become long-term projects for me, so I'll just mention them here. If you want to explain "div"s and anchor tags sometime (no hurry), can you talk about it on my talk page so I can have an easy place to refer to it? Thanks!

About the foreign records, if you look at the Sesamstrasse Discography, they're listed differently there than on each album's page, as far as having or not having the secondary title on the cover, and there are also consistency problems as to whether we should use parentheses, or quotes, or other marks to separate the secondary titles, or whether we should even write the whole thing out at all. I'll bring it up on a suitable page in a while, but I wanted to mention it to you first.

By the way, that book is $83.95, but I still want to get one! I got a similar book about Spike Jones, and I put it off for about 15 years, but I finally bit the bullet! -- Ken (talk) 03:03, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I just archived everything prior to yesterday (just so I don't have to switch pages to reference the last couple conversations). It had piled up too high. Feel free to do anything you like with Jean Shepherd. As you can see, my priority was carefully sourcing his Sesame contribution and transcribing most of the relevant comments; the linked download has a more extended fantasy about the producer's obsession with cookies, and the perils of being linked to the letter X, since it represents Brand X, "the bad brand... That's the Dick Cavett brand!"
I'll get into the div and anchor tags on your page later, but anchor tags are actually easy. They're the subdivisions on any page created by headings, so to link directly to it you just type [[Page Name#Section Name]] and so on.
Quotation marks should *never* be in an album title, unless they're actually used on the cover, which they aren't. I need to move those. I talked about subtitles with Paul a little. Just as we don't include "Sesame Street" unless it's clearly part of the title and not just a logo, likewise the "mit Ernie and Bert" etc., at least in those instances, is basically copy, not the title. If there is a legit subtitle ("Ernie and Bert Songfest 2: More Duckies and Pigeons!"), it should probably be divided with a colon, unless anything else is visibly used. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 06:53, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Thank you! That's a lot better. I guess I was talking to you too much, and after a while, I kept getting the "WARNING! THIS PAGE IS ABOUT TO EXPLODE!" message. Anyway, I'm going to look around at the various foreign records (I know "foreign" sounds kind of stuck up, but I hate typing "international" every time), and see how the various things like punctuation and subtitle placement are handled.
Just to be totally random, I wish I knew when the Koch CD's are going to start!
I'll call you Friday! (Actually, I'll call you Andrew, but I'll call you on Friday! -- Ken (talk) 06:55, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Different things

I wanted to see if we could keep the dots going until there's only one word per line, but I thought that would be irritating, so I came up here. I just had some brief questions:

1) What's the bio-bibliography called? I didn't know there was one.

2) What are anchor tags?

3) Yeah, for some reason I thought that 1935 would hit something important, but it didn't, so I took it out. Can I help you clean up dates, or is that an admin thing?

4) Can I make redirects, or is that an admin thing?

I've got more questions, but it's getting late, and I should really call it a night. By the way, 4 of my favorite PDQ Bach titles from the catalog (I haven't actually heard these played) are: "The Only Piece Ever Written for Violin and Tuba", "The Short-Tempered Clavier (Preludes and Fugues in all the major and minor keys except for the really hard ones)", "Sonata da Circo (for Organ or whatever)", and "Breakfast Antiphonies". Sleep well! -- Ken (talk) 06:25, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

1) It's a 2004 book. It's just called Peter Schickele: A Bio-Bibliography by Tammy Ravas. Published by an academic press, so it's not at all cheap. Better try inter-library loan (I accessed the necessary passage via Google Books' limited preview).
2) Anchor tags are the subsections of a page (in some charts and so forth, you'll see "div" tags in the code, which work much the same way). So, in other words, since Elderly Frackle redirects to Frackles, you use the anchor tag to link directly to its entry: Frackles#Gray Frackle. That's also how we link directly to individual sketches which are part of a larger table on Waiter Grover and so on.
3 and 4) Anyone can make redirects! (and the clean-up in this case is mainly unlinking, which takes time, prior to deletion, and again anybody can do that; it's just deletion that takes an admin, or as I was reminded earlier, moves over redirects which thus likewise involve a deltion) I'd appreciate the help. Here's how. Just enter the text in this way (tailoring to the appropriate year, and minus the "nowiki" tags I'm adding so this doesn't mess up the page):#REDIRECT [[Pre-1854#1933]]. It's also useful any time a merge occurs or another situation where you want to link a redirect specifically to just one section of a larger page (we've done it for a couple of the Minor TV Mentions, but not all of them).
Well, I might save up for it. I really like him, and someday I want to own scores of everything PDQ Bach ever wrote, because they're as funny to read as they are to listen to, and this would be a great resource to make sure I know about everything, since there's a bunch of stuff that hasn't been recorded.
Hmmm. The stuff with the redirects and the sharps (#) seems complicated, but I think I'll have to mess with it and see what it does. I've been using the "div" stuff to jump from stuff like a Ernie and Bert sketch on a record, to jump to the right box on the "Apartment Sketch" page. Guillermo taught me the div stuff. I'd like to learn the other stuff, if they do different things. I don't want to keep you up, but I just briefly wanted to mention that I'm running into some other questions with foreign records, and I was wondering if redirects would help, but I'll tell you about that tomorrow night. Okay, now I'm really going to bed. -- Ken (talk) 07:10, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

PDQ

I love that we have Peter Schickele on the wiki. Thank you. —Scott (talk) 05:41, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Your welcome! Now we just have to hope and wait for Sesame to add the films to their web player (or for someone to YouTube them), so we can actually *hear* the scores. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 06:41, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Whee! Ice cream nothin'! Everybody likes Peter Schickele! -- Mark (talk) 15:47, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
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